Reading others experiences about wanting to bolt helped to keep me “calm”

[TSandM]

It's funny, reading over these stories, how many look like a combination of narcosis and CO2 retention. It's not a good combination.

 

[JTDivers]

I would like to take a moment and send a personal "Thank You" to ALL who have contributed to this particular thread. The experiences and in-site of those who have taken the time to read, comment, advise, and theorize have proven to be invaluable to all who partake in this great sport. Being new to the sport and getting my wife and son involved in diving, I personally find these experiences very helpful to the whole family. I know I can only preach so much about experiences and ways to handle them with the family and to hear these experiences coming from other divers prove invaluable to new divers. As I said before, thank you for expressing your experiences to the rest of us.

Sincerely,
Trevor Anders

 

[PR_SMITH]

My thanks to Roger for sharing his experience and to you for shedding some technical light on the reasons for the heightened anxiety that may lead to a panic attack. Being a novice diver, I had never heard of 'dark narc" before. I'm likely to do most of my diving here in the relatively cold lakes of Ontario, so I'll definitely file that bit of info away. I'm a pretty calm person and cool in a crisis, but good to know about potential causes for losing that cool.

 

[PR_SMITH]

My thanks to Roger for sharing his experience and to you for shedding some technical light on the reasons for the heightened anxiety that may lead to a panic attack. Being a novice diver, I had never heard of 'dark narc" before. I'm likely to do most of my diving here in the relatively cold lakes of Ontario, so I'll definitely file that bit of info away. I'm a pretty calm person and cool in a crisis, but good to know about potential causes for losing that cool.

Oops, I didn't realize this would end up at the very end of the thread(forum newby, kinda embarassing for a computer geek, must past my bed-time)) I meant for this to post after TSandM's post number 10

 

[lamont]

Too much CO2 or not enough???

On a Cozumel dive I entered the water in a state of high anxiety and breathing heavily. In spite of dropping to the sand to try and settle down on three different occasions, I could not stop the heavy breathing and the urge to bolt and panic. I went thru a 120 cu ft tank of air in 25 min.

Upon returning home, I discussed the dive with my doctor who dives and lectures on medical issues related to diving. He suspected too little CO2 and suggested that the problem may have been solved by taking short breaths or while on the bottom, holding my breath.

your doctor is incorrect. you had too much CO2, and you were feeling suffocated and were hyperventilating which is actually not efficient at eliminating the CO2.

what you need to do is fully exhale and get all the CO2 out and then take a deep, but controlled breath, pause slightly (with your airway open) to let the CO2 and O2 exchange across the lung and then again fully exhale to expel all the CO2. hyperventilation doesn't efficiently exchange the CO2 and you don't fully deflate your lungs to expel the CO2.

taking your doctors advice and taking short breaths would make the problem worse, as would trying to hold your breath. that would build up more CO2 which would cause more narcosis, anxiety and panic. you need to get the CO2 out and/or ascend to the point where it breaks the narcosis-panic cycle.

 

[lamont]

My thanks to Roger for sharing his experience and to you for shedding some technical light on the reasons for the heightened anxiety that may lead to a panic attack. Being a novice diver, I had never heard of 'dark narc" before. I'm likely to do most of my diving here in the relatively cold lakes of Ontario, so I'll definitely file that bit of info away. I'm a pretty calm person and cool in a crisis, but good to know about potential causes for losing that cool.

I'd suggest doing a bunch of easy dives to 100 feet (in the cold+dark) until you get some experience with dark narcs if possible before building up to wrecks and current. I had probably a dozen mild dark narcs before i really started to understand what was going on in real time and had the ability to short circuit them with breathing and control rather than ascending.

For me, the fact that I could ascend from 100 feet to 70-80 feet an it would completely clear up was what made it very obvious that it was depth/narcosis related. Later I made the connection between breathing and CO2 narcosis.

I'll start to watch my thoughts now and as soon as they slip off the rails and i start thinking really 'goofy' then i know that i'm building up CO2 and i'll adjust my breathing (sometimes deliberately breathing a little bit harder and using up a little bit more gas) and that'll clear up long before i start getting into the panic/anxiety cycle.

 

[PR_SMITH]

I'd suggest doing a bunch of easy dives to 100 feet (in the cold+dark) until you get some experience with dark narcs if possible before building up to wrecks and current. I had probably a dozen mild dark narcs before i really started to understand what was going on in real time and had the ability to short circuit them with breathing and control rather than ascending.

For me, the fact that I could ascend from 100 feet to 70-80 feet an it would completely clear up was what made it very obvious that it was depth/narcosis related. Later I made the connection between breathing and CO2 narcosis.

I'll start to watch my thoughts now and as soon as they slip off the rails and i start thinking really 'goofy' then i know that i'm building up CO2 and i'll adjust my breathing (sometimes deliberately breathing a little bit harder and using up a little bit more gas) and that'll clear up long before i start getting into the panic/anxiety cycle.

Thanks for the advice, this is the sort of info that isn't in the OWD course. I notice that you are not certified; would it be fair to say that you have little faith in the certification process? My experience of training courses, be it scuba or how to transport hazardous materials, etc,etc, seems to be that one is taught the bare bones to get the paperwork, yet precious little of what will actually keep you safe in the real world. The real learning begins AFTER getting the paperwork, certificate, what-have-you. I can safely say that I have learned more from reading Scubaboard, than I got from my OWD course.

 

[hypersonic]

lamont,

Sorry, but I tend to agree with the diagnosis by my doctor.

I'd suggest you do more research on hypocapnia, which is often described as hyperventilation.

For further reading, check on hypercapnia which is often described as hypoventilation.

Confusing for sure but in turn, I suspect some of the other incidents on this thread relate to hyperventilation (too little CO2) rather than hypoventilation (too much CO2).

In fact, my doctor talking in terms I can relate to, said there is a transducer in your body that detects both high and low levels of CO2, and when triggered cause the same involuntary reaction, heavy breathing.

 

[lamont]

Sorry, but I'm going to trust that I've got more dives than you and your doctor combined and that I've actually experimented with this. If you attempt what your doctor suggests you will not see your symptoms resolve and you will get a very bad CO2 headache.

You should also read up on hypercapnia and its symptomology which can progress to hyperventilation. On the surface classical panic attacks induced by anxiety produce hyperventilation and hypocapnia as a symptom, which is what your doctor is thinking of. Underwater, CO2 buildup due to either exertion or skip-breathing results in hyperventilation as a symptom (which fails to clear the PaCO2 due to dead air space and work of breathing). Your doctor probably never sees this kind of symptomology on the surface.

lamont,

Sorry, but I tend to agree with the diagnosis by my doctor.

I'd suggest you do more research on hypocapnia, which is often described as hyperventilation.

For further reading, check on hypercapnia which is often described as hypoventilation.

Confusing for sure but in turn, I suspect some of the other incidents on this thread relate to hyperventilation (too little CO2) rather than hypoventilation (too much CO2).

In fact, my doctor talking in terms I can relate to, said there is a transducer in your body that detects both high and low levels of CO2, and when triggered cause the same involuntary reaction, heavy breathing.

 

[lamont]

Thanks for the advice, this is the sort of info that isn't in the OWD course. I notice that you are not certified; would it be fair to say that you have little faith in the certification process?

No, I have lots of certifications, I just don't believe in posting them on scubaboard...