Read JJ's book - What's all the fuss about?

[BabyDuck]

http://www.downunderscuba.com/

xi, they offer fundies at least once a year, in cary, a nice shop. maybe march? you can find an ncdivers.com person to stay with if necessary.

 

[Mo2vation]

...in other words, don't confuse the messanger with the message

Their first line of offense is these (often un-named) people that spew stuff that is offense, provocative, outside of the mainstream training they received or simply not to their taste.

After that, the next fallback is the name (of course they have no issue with "Dive Rite")

After that, the next fallback is the gear (you know these people, the "you can have my jacket BC when you pry it from my cold dead fingers", the "I love my brick console", "wrap a hose around your neck, are you mental??", "I can do a back kick in my split fins" people...)

After that, the next fallback is the Halcyon / DIR / JJ connection (c'Mon, you Oliver Stone's - you know who you are...)

After that, the next fallback is the "cave gear forced on openwater divers" tripe (the "why a long hose in open water" and the "flutter kick is perfectly acceptable in open water" people...)

After that (if they've gotten this far) its usually about the gas planning (the "rock bottom for you isn't rock bottom for me" and the "tri-mix schmi-mix, I dive to 160 on air all the time" crowd...)


AND - after all of the above objections have reached their rediculous conclusions, the old timers, the lifeless, the "friends o' Sheck" (or any combination of the afore mentioned) chime in about how this style / gear config / whatever has been around long before (insert JJ or GI3 here) and blah blah blah...

Its all tired.

The best quote I've ever read about all this rot is Ron's "they usually are...." It was and is a classic (do a search...)

---
Ken

 

[StSomewhere]

I too have just finished reading JJ's book along with Dress for Success - Dan MacKay. Both where every enjoyable to read and I did not seen anything in them that points to the bad rap that DIR has on some boards. I will adopt the things I think are good for the type of diving that I do - long hose, bungied oct. However, I don't plan on getting rid of my dive computer anytime soon!

The computer isn't the problem, blindly following the NDL number on the computer or the yellow or red bars is the problem. Go ahead and use the computer for now (its just another tool) but think about the profiles you are diving. If you have the Essentials DVD, the powerpoints have a couple of good slides on ascent rates. IMUO (in my useless opinion) that's the first place to begin questioning what your computer is telling you.

 

[Meng_Tze]

It keeps amazing me that so much emotion, offensive, defensive, objectional and blatant ignorance continues to come with each thread on DIR. If DIR did something (outside of training one specific way) for the dive world, it must be flared up emotions about diving and how.

I bet JJ and GI3 are laughing their heads off at these sort of things.

 

[lamont]

Their first line of offense is these (often un-named) people that spew stuff that is offense, provocative, outside of the mainstream training they received or simply not to their taste.

After that, the next fallback is the name (of course they have no issue with "Dive Rite")

After that, the next fallback is the gear (you know these people, the "you can have my jacket BC when you pry it from my cold dead fingers", the "I love my brick console", "wrap a hose around your neck, are you mental??", "I can do a back kick in my split fins" people...)

After that, the next fallback is the Halcyon / DIR / JJ connection (c'Mon, you Oliver Stone's - you know who you are...)

After that, the next fallback is the "cave gear forced on openwater divers" tripe (the "why a long hose in open water" and the "flutter kick is perfectly acceptable in open water" people...)

After that (if they've gotten this far) its usually about the gas planning (the "rock bottom for you isn't rock bottom for me" and the "tri-mix schmi-mix, I dive to 160 on air all the time" crowd...)


AND - after all of the above objections have reached their rediculous conclusions, the old timers, the lifeless, the "friends o' Sheck" (or any combination of the afore mentioned) chime in about how this style / gear config / whatever has been around long before (insert JJ or GI3 here) and blah blah blah...

Its all tired.

The best quote I've ever read about all this rot is Ron's "they usually are...." It was and is a classic (do a search...)

---
Ken

You forgot the solo divers that don't want to be "dependent" upon a buddy...

 

[*Floater*]

After reading JJ's book I also didn't buy the no computer argument; the benefits just seemed to outweigh the costs. However, after taking DIR-F I changed my mind mainly because most computers don't have the best, most cutting edge deco algorithms whereas one's brain may.

For example, some of them will punish you for reverse profiles, whereas I was taught in DIR-F to do the shallowest dive first and that after that it doesn't matter whether I dive reverse or forward profiles. Also, it wasn't that I had to go back to the traditional table diving when I left my computer in gauge mode. Instead I learned an easy to remember table to use with my average depth, which is also easy to estimate. I actually went back and uploaded all my dive data from the computer and applied the method I was taught to it. The result was that I would not have had to cut any of my rec dives short had I been using the algorithm I was taught in DIR-F instead of the computer (though I had not been diving my computer to the limit either).

However, a bottom timer and a device to track and upload your dive data probably cost more than a cheap air computer/cable with those functions, so computers are still the better choice imo. Also the multigas computers offer more flexibility if you don't like to dive using GUE's standard gases.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Also the multigas computers offer more flexibility if you don't like to dive using GUE's standard gases.

I'm curious - what's wrong with the GUE standard gases? The whole point of using them is that it allows you to develop standard deco profiles for all your diving (similar to what you learned in your DIR-F class for non-deco dives). This actually simplifies the process of planning and executing a dive.

Standard gases also guarantee that everyone on the team is on the same page with respect to their deco. Everyone dives the same profile, everyone does the same stops, everyone uses the same deco gases - this is a critical aspect of any team-oriented dive. With the multi-gas computers, there's no guarantee that the deco schedules will be the same (or even similar), so it's "every man for himself" when you get to the deco stops. That's clearly not the way to go, if you are truly diving as team.

The idea of using standard gases was developed to (1) allow divers to familiarize themselves with their deco profiles through repeated application over numerous dives, and (2) support the concept of "unified team" by ensuring that everyone follows the same schedule, from the time they enter the water until they exit at the end of the dive.

Using a dive computer to plan and execute dives simply doesn't give the same level of reinforcement. Not to mention the fact that if it fails, you better have a backup plan written out somewhere. And if you're going to go to the trouble to write out the plan anyway, why not just use that to plan the whole dive?

 

[Jasonmh]

I'm curious - what's wrong with the GUE standard gases? The whole point of using them is that it allows you to develop standard deco profiles for all your diving (similar to what you learned in your DIR-F class for non-deco dives). This actually simplifies the process of planning and executing a dive.

Standard gases also guarantee that everyone on the team is on the same page with respect to their deco. Everyone dives the same profile, everyone does the same stops, everyone uses the same deco gases - this is a critical aspect of any team-oriented dive. With the multi-gas computers, there's no guarantee that the deco schedules will be the same (or even similar), so it's "every man for himself" when you get to the deco stops. That's clearly not the way to go, if you are truly diving as team.

The idea of using standard gases was developed to (1) allow divers to familiarize themselves with their deco profiles through repeated application over numerous dives, and (2) support the concept of "unified team" by ensuring that everyone follows the same schedule, from the time they enter the water until they exit at the end of the dive.

Using a dive computer to plan and execute dives simply doesn't give the same level of reinforcement. Not to mention the fact that if it fails, you better have a backup plan written out somewhere. And if you're going to go to the trouble to write out the plan anyway, why not just use that to plan the whole dive?

Oh no, the new guy is making sense. Everybody run..

You're new here, so I'll fill you in. We usually prefer completely non-sensical responses that are not well thought out. I think I can hear some heads exploding as we speak.
Next time please try making sweeping statements, and make sure there is no fact included to back anything up. And if you could start your posts with "Well, I don't know anything about DIR, but my sisters cousins dogwalker says that DIR is evil.."

Of course I am just kidding.. glad you are here and welcome.

I'm sure that someone will find a way to pick apart your post, don't take it personally.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

You're new here, so I'll fill you in. We usually prefer completely non-sensical responses that are not well thought out. [...] Next time please try making sweeping statements, and make sure there is no fact included to back anything up.

Oh dear - my first "real" post on the board, and already I have committed a faux pas. :embarass: Thanks for the tips, and I will try not to let it happen again.

Of course I am just kidding.. glad you are here and welcome. I'm sure that someone will find a way to pick apart your post, don't take it personally.

No worries - I have a pretty thick skin.

 

[Mo2vation]

You forgot the solo divers that don't want to be "dependent" upon a buddy...

I knew I was missing one.

Thanks for having my back... :10:


---
Ken