Rant about medical forms for scuba instruction

[raviepoo]

I completely understand the necessity of having a student will out a medical form prior to scuba instruction. But I don't understand why a person who has been cleared to dive once would have to be cleared again and again any time he or she wants to take a class.

For instance, my husband is on prescription meds. He was cleared for diving when he was first certified. If he wants to take a specialty class he will have to do one of two things with the medical questionare:

1 - Lie and say he is not on prescription meds;

or

2 - Go back to the doctor who cleared him in the first place and ask, "Is it still OK for me to dive while taking the same medication that I was taking the last time you told me it was OK for me to dive?"

ABSOLUTLEY LUDICROUS.

Once you're cleared you should stay cleared unless your status changes.

/rant off

 

[Hemlon]

It's easier just to lie about it.

 

[BradEllis]

I completely understand the necessity of having a student will out a medical form prior to scuba instruction. But I don't understand why a person who has been cleared to dive once would have to be cleared again and again any time he or she wants to take a class.

For instance, my husband is on prescription meds. He was cleared for diving when he was first certified. If he wants to take a specialty class he will have to do one of two things with the medical questionare:

1 - Lie and say he is not on prescription meds;

or

2 - Go back to the doctor who cleared him in the first place and ask, "Is it still OK for me to dive while taking the same medication that I was taking the last time you told me it was OK for me to dive?"

ABSOLUTLEY LUDICROUS.

Once you're cleared you should stay cleared unless your status changes.

/rant off

Well, I can explain it, but you are not going to like it..................

Each course (OW, AOW, Rescue, Specialties) stands on its own and is a unique entity. The medical waiver is a LEGAL LIABILITY protection issue. Nothing more. It is not designed to medically "clear" a diver for diving. Should a court case arise as a result of a class, the instructor must be able to isolate himself for the "fitness to dive" issue. The instructor should be able to supply a COMPLETE student file...all exams, tests, waivers, and the medical release. This is as it should be. No instructor (when working in the instructor role) is capable of medically determining a persons "fitness to dive".

A person is perfectly able to lie on the medical form. If that happens, the instructor is covered.....you LIED to the agency to falsify your fitness to dive. If a student answers "yes" to a listed condition, the family doctor must authorize the student for medical "fitness to dive".

In our store, we don't allow ANYONE to "discuss" how the form is to be completed. We require one for EVERY class. The student must answer the questions. Our decision is a simple one....either you have SELF cleared yourself to dive by denying that you have any of the listed conditions, or your doctor approves your participation in spite of a listed condition.

Additional Note: The PADI form has a space where a doctor can make comments after signing. If a doctor writes ANYTHING restricting in that space, we treat the form as not approved by the doctor. Examples would be "as long as they don't go too deep", "as long as they don't get cold", "must stop diving at the first sign of......". Any such statement puts a responsibility (in our opinion) on the instructor to make medical decisions. Instructors are not qualified to do that. So, the student is denied the opportunity to participate in the class.

Brad Ellis

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Remember the first rule when instructing someone. CYA. Always assume that your next student might be your first lawsuit. Sad, but unfortunately in our litigious society, true. Its pretty prudent of them to ask for a medical clearance form each time, otherwise the dive instructor would have to make a judgment call as to which illnesses/ailments/conditions require careful monitoring and regular checkups, and which only need to be checked once, by a doctor. A judgment he is not legally qualified to make

 

[piikki]

Additional Note: The PADI form has a space where a doctor can make comments after signing. If a doctor writes ANYTHING restricting in that space, we treat the form as not approved by the doctor. Examples would be "as long as they don't go too deep", "as long as they don't get cold", "must stop diving at the first sign of......". Any such statement puts a responsibility (in our opinion) on the instructor to make medical decisions. Instructors are not qualified to do that. So, the student is denied the opportunity to participate in the class.

Do you give money/downpayment back if that happens?

This is not quite what OP was asking but I remember on my OW course that we returned the medical forms first lesson. One student had ticked something that required clearance (and obviously didn't have that clearance). I was kind of thinking what a stupid way for a shop to let students do it that way. Everyone had paid up, and now someone might not even be allowed to take the course. Why not require all this in advance.

Shops will not care that you will have to go back to your doctor. I have heard several divers say their instructors advised them to tick "no" for everything. I wonder how that would fare if something happened and trail leads to undisclosed condition. Which idiot would be more wrong, the instructor for saying "don't tell" or you trying to say you didn't understand it was not wise?? Just remember you will definitely be the one in risk of losing more if you are not in a position to tell helpers something really important when you need specific kind of aid.

 

[Cacia]

I think you need to identify the issues, both medical and legal, and decide for yourself and assume the inherent responsibilty of that.

Anybody that wants to travel to a distant country and then tell them you had a inguinal hernia when you were in 5th grade, be prepared to miss the dive. If that's your code of ethics, well ya gotta do what you feel is right.

Honestly, looking for all these clear cut "rules" about every little decision you make will prove frustrating and paralyzing, especially for people actually "exploring the globe." A lot of the subsequent doctor's visits required by the operator will be made by a doctor who has no access to your records or studies. He only knows what you report, so I'd rather skip the whole field trip myself. People that choose to go through the motions can feel good about supporting the local economy and being honest, nothing wrong with that.

 

[nereas]

I completely understand the necessity of having a student will out a medical form prior to scuba instruction. But I don't understand why a person who has been cleared to dive once would have to be cleared again and again any time he or she wants to take a class.

For instance, my husband is on prescription meds. He was cleared for diving when he was first certified. If he wants to take a specialty class he will have to do one of two things with the medical questionare:

1 - Lie and say he is not on prescription meds;

or

2 - Go back to the doctor who cleared him in the first place and ask, "Is it still OK for me to dive while taking the same medication that I was taking the last time you told me it was OK for me to dive?"

ABSOLUTLEY LUDICROUS.

Once you're cleared you should stay cleared unless your status changes.

/rant off

There is no easy answer to this problem.

Your form when signed by a physician should be valid for a given store for at least a year, and for all the instructors in that store. There should be a student folder which covers all classes and all instructors. Some stores may do this differently, such as the cattleboat stores that stamp out divers by the dozens at a time. But a typical quality store will treat you more personally, and one folder will be created for all your course work with their store.

If you go to another store, which is affiliated with the same agency, then a copy of the signed form should be valid at least for a year. If not, then you should be able to go back to your doctor, and if it has been less than a year, then the doctor would likely sign the new form as well within 30 seconds.

The best way to avoid any problem is to stick with one particular instructor.

Since each of the agencies has somewhat different requirements, based on different insurance companies, and also based on different policy, it will get really tricky if you go to a different store that is affiliated with a different agency.

There is a big difference at the technical levels, however, and at that point, a new waiver may be needed, since the form may change at that point. Certain medications work differently at greater depth than shallow. Some can cause severe narcosis, and some can cause blacking out, which is never a good idea during scuba diving.

And beginning with the instructor training courses, a complete physical would likely be needed. It depends on the agency.

 

[spectrum]

My experience with several instructors is that the requirement of a doctors sign-off is at their discretion. We have been cleared for hypertension by saying that it's controlled and even asthma by stating that its not cold or exercise induced (allergies) and under control.

Have you fainted? yes I have 1 time diagnosed as Vasovagal syncope, just once? Yes. OK

Both my wife and I put the question to our doctor in advance of starting OW and he never needed to do any paperwork.

Pete

 

[DennisS]

I think the diver should be cleared by his doctor to dive, I don't think his medical history belongs in every dive store he takes a course from.

 

[nereas]

I think you need to identify the issues, both medical and legal, and decide for yourself and assume the inherent responsibilty of that.

Anybody that wants to travel to a distant country and then tell them you had a inguinal hernia when you were in 5th grade, be prepared to miss the dive. If that's your code of ethics, well ya gotta do what you feel is right.

Honestly, looking for all these clear cut "rules" about every little decision you make will prove frustrating and paralyzing, especially for people actually "exploring the globe." A lot of the subsequent doctor's visits required by the operator will be made by a doctor who has no access to your records or studies. He only knows what you report, so I'd rather skip the whole field trip myself. People that choose to go through the motions can feel good about supporting the local economy and being honest, nothing wrong with that.

I recommend being honest about it. But then, that is easy for me to say, since there are no conditions for which I need to check the box.

True, a student may be running to their doctor yearly with a new form each time. But an annual physical is normally warranted for scuba divers anyway, especially those with certain conditions.

Most people go to have their cholersterol checked, since this is very much in vogue today.