Quick Deco Question

[HIGHwing]

Okay fair, but a lot of time my ascent involves some descents and a mile of cave or so... Perspectives could be environmentally influenced.

 

[Diver0001]

Indeed. I have a limited scope as compared to some of you guys.

R..

 

[Jax]

Rather than beating someone up who asks a question, I believe his questions are about the computer algorithm and how it reacts. This is not something that his training materials or instructor might know, and I certainly don't remember it being part of my training either. So lighten up on the flame throwing.

Hear, hear!

My first impression, given that this is a person living in Egypt and with English as a second language, was that he was trying to understand his computer better.

 

[GrimSleeper]

Hear, hear!

My first impression, given that this is a person living in Egypt and with English as a second language, was that he was trying to understand his computer better.

He's in Egypt, but I'm reasonably sure Declan Long isn't an Egyptian name. I'd guess Irish or British. Mind you, I've never met the guy, so I could be talking out of my hat - wouldn't be the first time.

The responses are probably coloured by the fact that the same person has posted a long and relentless string of questions about some quite basic aspects of decompression diving theory, techniques and equipment, all of which really should have been covered by the technical diving courses he says he has taken. My own take is that, if you don't understand why a mandatory stop might clear as you ascend from depth, or why you can carry out decompression deeper than the ceiling indicated by the model you're using, you shouldn't be conducting decompression dives. If you come on a public forum and essentially admit that you're conducting a dangerous activity without having a clue what you're doing, there's always going to be some flak...

 

[DaleC]

And the fact that he keeps spelling his own name differently gives pause to wonder. Personally, I think he's having as much fun as the rest of us.

 

[Diver0001]

He's in Egypt, but I'm reasonably sure Declan Long isn't an Egyptian name. I'd guess Irish or British..

That's all conjecture. What nationality would a name like 'GrimSleeper' suggest to us?

I know for a fact that he lives in Egypt. Some of his posts have also made me wonder if English was a 2nd language for him but his English is good (or good enough) either way. I don't think we're seeing a language issue here. I think we're seeing an issue of someone who very much prefers to learn via the internet than via "traditional" courses.

I recently read an article about that and it turns out that "online learning" in the broadest sense is reaching a critical mass among the generation born in (... can't remember...) but let's say that last 15-20 years. Students now take their information from multiple diverse sources and integrate their learning themselves as opposed to being taught "what they need, when they need it" by teachers who have the power over information.

It took time for me to get my head around that.... but what it means is this. Consider information like water. In previous generations that water was focused into a stream like a garden hose (or sometimes a firehose LOL) and "delivered" to the student. In other words, the teacher was holding the hose and "spraying" their students with knowledge. Today information is a lot more diverse and dispersed. The "new" student goes dancing in the rain and collecting rain drops. Ultimately they can reach the same point but the process is very VERY different.

Ergo, I would reach the conclusion not so much that friend "Long" is trying to take a "short cut" to learning than that he is learning in a way that some of the old farts like me have a little trouble following. It's a generation gap. I'm also going to predict his age. If I'm right he can't be more than about 20 years old.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

I am pretty sure his name is not Declan Long, just as boulderjohn is not my name. I say that with great confidence.

I am not sure about his background and motivation, which is why I asked for more information about that.

I believe Rob is right about changes in learning technique due to technology. When I was actively working as a staff developer in a major school district, I was trying hard to get teachers to use experiential methods of learning, including project based learning and authentic instruction, methods that require students to think about and use information, creating products and solving complex problems rather than merely memorizing and reciting facts. There was--and still is--a lot of resistance to this approach among long time teachers, but I invariably found the most resistance from history teachers. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that it seemed as if they thought that the epitome of a great history student is the person who could name important figures and events in history and knew the important dates. They saw the ability to draw inferences about historical events, form theories as to their causes, etc. as something you did not start doing until you had first memorized all the facts.

I recently talked with someone who was in school to be a history teacher, and he said all of that is changing. Anyone with a smart phone can get any historical fact or date in a matter of seconds, and they were now starting to work on using that data meaningfully during instruction instead.

Is that what is happening here? I have no idea. I do, however, think that we should be cautious. I am sure everyone who is indeed well trained in technical diving understands the importance of the experiential training that goes with it, and memorizing facts without that training is a potential path to disaster.

 

[Ste Wart]

That's all conjecture. What nationality would a name like 'GrimSleeper' suggest to us?

Um.

Scottish descent

Dives somewhere warm, maybe the South Pacific...

 

[GrimSleeper]

Um.

Scottish descent

Dives somewhere warm, maybe the South Pacific...

You know what they said about online stalking at your last court hearing…

Diver0001 makes a fair point, I said myself that I was guessing about 'Declan Long''s origins. Seems an odd name to make up, though. Most user names that aren't a real name are some sort of contraction of a real name, say something about how the user views themselves or, in my case, is a stupid joke going back to when AOL launched the first public internet service in the UK and I've just kept it out of habit.

The idea that anyone is trying to 'learn' technical diving by trying to pick nuggets of information out of the static on a forum is a little scary, especially when that's mixed with a repeated claim to have read 'Deco for Divers' and a consistent demonstration of having understood none of it. The problem with the analogy of raindrops is that, in this case, not all the drops are fresh water - some of them are sewage. Until you have at least a basic grounding, how do you know the difference? If you took all your technical diving information from ScubaBoard, you could easily end up believing that the best way to dive is to misapply Ratio Deco and feather your valves in all emergencies… And as boulderjohn points out, an awful lot of the value of technical training lies in the experience elements of the course, not the theory. I recall Declan posting a while back about embarking on some sort of tech internship, but his posts suggest that he's picked almost nothing up from his instructors if that's what he was doing, although he seems to have certs and is, at the very least, planning the dives. And that's fine, there are other sources of information for dive theory, but strangers with no provenance on the interweb forums surely come a long way behind the accepted reference 'bibles', resources like Rubicon, Erik Baker's papers that are all over the web, talking to actual divers doing the actual dives… Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like my information to be peer-reviewed. Opinion, on the other hand, is more fun if it's completely subjective and off-the-wall, but I'm not going to risk my life on the basis of it.

And Ste Wart is right. Scottish descent (although I lived within around 30 miles of London or in London itself from the age of six onwards, until I left the UK). Now in the Solomon Islands, where it is most definitely warm and I've been for seven years. Former PADI IDC Staff Instructor, now an SDI/TDI instructor. OC Trimix certified, CCR certified, will eventually be CCR Trimix and king of the world, or something. Own a dive shop with my partner Jen and do some stupid stuff occasionally, often involving sharks, but mostly (I think) have a reasonable idea of what I'm up to underwater. Have found a couple of WWII plane wrecks and am still looking for a destroyer wreck. Full name is Graeme Sanson. 47 years old and can be a grumpy bastard.

There's nothing there you couldn't pick up from my use of language, recent posts or following the links in my sig. About the only things you wouldn't get within a couple of clicks are my age, shoe size (also 47, I just realised) and bank details. Which I'm not giving you.