Questions about buying a primary light

[kathydee]

Hi -

Just back in the country and starting to collect gear to get this training and local diving rolling ;-)

I'll be buying my first primary light very soon and I’d love to hear the DIR forum’s thoughts -- as it’s an expensive investment. It is important to me to purchase a solid trustworthy light that will not limit where the DIR training can take me in the future (only want to purchase it once).

For now I will be diving in low vis No. California water, but do not want to rule out the possibility of needing a light suitable for penetration someday in the future.

After reading lots of threads on this forum and others -- a Salvo 21W HID light appears to be the preferred way to go because of the quality, customer service, price, and lack of hand ballast. (Seems I have found a few units still available on the internet.)

My LDS says Leviathan will be honoring Salvo’s warrantee – can anyone confirm this? (I’d rather purchase a light now – than wait for Leviathan to re-form & the Halcyon light heads are quite large for my petite 5’4” frame)

Rather than the 21W, some friends are suggesting a Salvo 12W LED because of my size and tendency to travel internationally where weight and bulk are an issue. Do you have any thoughts on the effectiveness of the 12W vs. 21W in our local low vis CA water, or in other potential environments where I might end up?

Also, on a final note, I’d really appreciate it if you please share some basic thoughts on HID vs LED for DIR divers.

I’m definitely new to primary lights, so I really appreciate the information!

Thanks!

 

[bwilcher]

I have used a Salvo 21wt for several years and found it to be a robust light with no problems. The manufacurers of the Salvo lights will be able to honor the warranty.

 

[TSandM]

I think it's looking less and less likely that there will be any Leviathan, or any reemergence of the folks who were involved in Salvo as light manufacturers. Halcyon is doing everything they can within the legal system to stop that from happening, and so far, they're successful. Salvo lights were and are good lights, but if you buy one, I think you have to figure you have an orphan product with no guarantee of any service. Right now, Halcyon is offering to work on Salvo lights (and charge for it, of course, as they ought) but whether that will be a permanent thing or not, I don't know.

With respect to LED versus HID -- up until now, no LED primary light gives the beam brightness AND beam focus of a 21W HID. A lot of companies are working steadily on LED lighting, and I'm sure we'll see advances, but I think the consensus right now is that HID is a preferable primary light.

As far as brands go, you have Halcyon, Sartek, Green Force, Dive Rite and others. The only ones I've heard bad things about are Dive Rites (lots of leaks), although some people own and use them without problems.

 

[Gombessa]

I'll just add to TS&M that I've lately had a very hard time being able to tell apart 500-1000 lumen LEDs and 10w HIDs. But as far as making an investment for the future is concerned, the best bang for the buck remains a 21w HID.

One of my buddies had a good 10w HID, which is great when the water gets really dark and murky, but really starts to wash out fast on better-viz days when the sun penetrates further down. He's since upgraded to an HID - a 21w Salvo.

 

[crd_kats]

I think it's looking less and less likely that there will be any Leviathan, or any reemergence of the folks who were involved in Salvo as light manufacturers. Halcyon is doing everything they can within the legal system to stop that from happening, and so far, they're successful. Salvo lights were and are good lights, but if you buy one, I think you have to figure you have an orphan product with no guarantee of any service. Right now, Halcyon is offering to work on Salvo lights (and charge for it, of course, as they ought) but whether that will be a permanent thing or not, I don't know.

With respect to LED versus HID -- up until now, no LED primary light gives the beam brightness AND beam focus of a 21W HID. A lot of companies are working steadily on LED lighting, and I'm sure we'll see advances, but I think the consensus right now is that HID is a preferable primary light.

As far as brands go, you have Halcyon, Sartek, Green Force, Dive Rite and others. The only ones I've heard bad things about are Dive Rites (lots of leaks), although some people own and use them without problems.

Agreed. I've attached a video that explains a lil more about HID vs. LED and a bit more.

[vimeo]4919931[/vimeo]

 

[Scott L]

Although it seems principals and values are out of vogue these days why patronize an outfit (Salvo/Leviathan) that has been convicted of felonious theft of a competitor's materials/products & trade accounts? Prepared to hold the former key employees of Salvo and now the new owners of Leviathan blameless? Would you work along side the owner of a company knowing full well how he acquired his working capital? Furthermore, after inception of Leviathan the courts at Jablonski's request determined a host of materials, equipment and products involved in the former court decree were in the possession of Leviathan. Sloppy due dilegence or aquired with full knowledge? I am not going to research that question as I have already formed my opinion of all involved...

P.S. If their lights are so great why are there scores of customers on this board trying to figure out how to get their equipment back from repair or how to get theit lights repaired period.

 

[supersand]

I love my salvo 21 watt. Its really well thought out. I really like that the ballast is located in the canister making the head more manageable and less cumbersome. I was sorry to hear of their legal problems, but they did make great lights. I have a 12 watt led and a 21watt HID. The HID does provide a little extra punch and has a tighter beam which can be focused, I feel both the 12watt LED or the 21watt HID would work fine in Monterey. The 12watt light came with a soft goodman handle that's nice in warm waters but I prefer the hard handle of the 21watt for cold water. There are workarounds for the 12watt LED's soft handle and there was a hard handle available from salvo, although I don't own one.

-Erik

 

[nadwidny]

Salvo is gone. Leviathan right now is vaporware. LED technology still isn't where it needs to be for primary lights. 10W HID is too little for OW situations. That should help narrow down the options.

There are a lot of good used 18/21W HID lights out there these days. With a little homework you could probably buy 2 used ones for the price of one new one. A spare lighthead is extremely valuable for travellers because with primary lights it's not if they go T/U, it's when.

 

[kathydee]

Although it seems principals and values are out of vogue these days why patronize an outfit (Salvo/Leviathan) that has been convicted of felonious theft of a competitor's materials/products & trade accounts? Prepared to hold the former key employees of Salvo and now the new owners of Leviathan blameless? Would you work along side the owner of a company knowing full well how he acquired his working capital? Furthermore, after inception of Leviathan the courts at Jablonski's request determined a host of materials, equipment and products involved in the former court decree were in the possession of Leviathan. Sloppy due dilegence or aquired with full knowledge? I am not going to research that question as I have already formed my opinion of all involved...

I wouldn't mind springing for the Halcyon as I have learned the hard way - the global distribution of Halcyon (and availability of parts) is wider than most other brands (at least in SE Asia).

But I'm quite little and the Halcyon light head covers over 1/2 of my forearm - which makes it less attractive - even if motivated by principals and values (been a bit out of the loop & missed those conversations).

Starting to research the other suggestions too. Thanks for the advice everybody.

 

[AndyNZ]

I'll be buying my first primary light very soon and I’d love to hear the DIR forum’s thoughts -- as it’s an expensive investment. It is important to me to purchase a solid trustworthy light that will not limit where the DIR training can take me in the future (only want to purchase it once).

FWIW, I'd suggest getting hold of and trying lights before buying - actually seeing them in the water in the environment you dive in is the only real way of knowing you'll get the right product for you.

I'd ignore the technology debate. and decide on the features you want... then map that back to what's available. Features to consider are:

1. Focusable or fixed focus?
2. Brightness
3. Size (of light head and battery pack)
4. Burntime
5. Purpose

The first one of these is IMHO the most important decision for you to make. The next three are all closely related, in the sense that if you want a brighter light then the size will go up and/or the burntime will go down.

All of the first four choices are driven from number 5, what do you want the light for? Possible answers to that could inclide:

1. To pump out as much light as possible
2. To be a signalling device

or some combination of the two.


Speaking for myself, a 10W focusable HID ticks all the boxes. They have disadvantages as mentioned above - but they are nice and small, bright enough for what I want, a tight enough beam to use for signalling and have a good burn time. But don't take my word at face value - get out there and try as many different lights as you can.