Question Trim and Ankle Weights

[Ronniemu]

I am a new diver. When going for my certification I had to use two (1.5 lb) ankle weights.
If the ankle weights were not used my feet would float uncontrolled. When being tested at the surface for proper weighting I would let the air out of my lungs and my body went under as my feet went rapidly towards the surface (I was almost upside down). The ankle weights corrected this and all my problems. It also improved my flutter kick.

Since then I completed my OW dives using these ankle weights with no problems and received my certification.

I had purchased all my necessary gear except for a wetsuit. During this time I had practice in my pool with just a swimsuit and a T-shirt. I did not use ankle weights and only needed about 4 pounds of weight to be able to descend, Everything was great, no problems with my kick or establishing neutral bouyance. However, after a few weeks of practice I bought a wetsuit. I now wanted to see how much weight I would now need in fresh water using all my gear which now includes a full (5 mil) wetsuit. I had to add an additional 10 pounds of weight (total of 14 pounds) to decend).


Here is my problem: The 14 pounds was enough for my decend., but my feet problem reappeared. When testing at the surface for proper weighting when letting the air out of my lungs, my body went under as my feet went rapidly towards the surface and the problems with my flutter kick also reappeared.


Questions:

1) Can everything be so perfect, and then by donning a wetsuit, I have to start wearing ankle weights again?

2) How can I correct this as I prefer not to rely on ankle weights.

3) Is anyone else having this problem.

 

[spectrum]

Where are the 14 pounds located? What are you using for a cylinder. How is your cylinder positioned? You may be top heavy as opposed to feet light.

Correct weight is one the next step is distribution. In my case my first configuration left me foot heavy and I needed to put 6 pounds in my trim pockets to keep my feet up. This was not new weight, just moved some up from my belt to middle back area. This was in spite of having a fairly negative E7-80.

To answer your question about the suit causing the problems I'd say abosolutly. Diving is MUCH easier w/o neoprene.

The effort to get the ankle weights out of your configuration is well spent. You don't need to be using energy waving those things up and down.

Pete

I am a new diver. When going for my certification I had to use two (1.5 lb) ankle weights.
If the ankle weights were not used my feet would float uncontrolled. When being tested at the surface for proper weighting I would let the air out of my lungs and my body went under as my feet went rapidly towards the surface (I was almost upside down). The ankle weights corrected this and all my problems. It also improved my flutter kick.

Since then I completed my OW dives using these ankle weights with no problems and received my certification.

I had purchased all my necessary gear except for a wetsuit. During this time I had practice in my pool with just a swimsuit and a T-shirt. I did not use ankle weights and only needed about 4 pounds of weight to be able to descend, Everything was great, no problems with my kick or establishing neutral bouyance. However, after a few weeks of practice I bought a wetsuit. I now wanted to see how much weight I would now need in fresh water using all my gear which now includes a full (5 mil) wetsuit. I had to add an additional 10 pounds of weight (total of 14 pounds) to decend).


Here is my problem: The 14 pounds was enough for my decend., but my feet problem reappeared. When testing at the surface for proper weighting when letting the air out of my lungs, my body went under as my feet went rapidly towards the surface and the problems with my flutter kick also reappeared.


Questions:

1) Can everything be so perfect, and then by donning a wetsuit, I have to start wearing ankle weights again?

2) How can I correct this as I prefer not to rely on ankle weights.

3) Is anyone else having this problem.

 

[Ronniemu]

Where are the 14 pounds located? What are you using for a cylinder. How is your cylinder positioned? You may be top heavy as opposed to feet light.

Correct weight is one the next step is distribution. In my case my first configuration left me foot heavy and I needed to put 6 pounds in my trim pockets to keep my feet up. This was not new weight, just moved some up from my belt to middle back area. This was in spite of having a fairly negative E7-80.

To answer your question about the suit causing the problems I'd say abosolutly. Diving is MUCH easier w/o neoprene.

The effort to get the ankle weights out of your configuration is well spent. You don't need to be using energy waving those things up and down.

Pete

I have the 14 lbs in the intergrated pockets of my BC and don't use any weight in the trim pockets. Besides this I must use a total of 3 pounds of weights on my ankles. I also use a alumi tank. I believe the wetsuit sizing is contributing to my problems with flloating feet. I use a Bare wetsuit. One of the reasons I purchased a Bare is because the company offered more choices of sizes. I am using a Medium Large / Short which is closes to my body measurements. The chest size for this wetsuit is 39 - 41 inches, my chest size is 42 inchs so it fits snug. However the waist size is 33 - 35 inches and my waist is only 31 inches. The wetsuit hip size is 39 to 41 inches and my hips are only 34 inches. I believe the extra larger size of the wetsuit from the waist down is causing this problem. As I mentioned without the wetsuit on, using just a swimsuit, everything is perfect and ankle weights are not needed.

I would prefer to move my tank more towards my legs. I am not sure how low I can position the tank. keeping in mind I don't want to lose it in the water.

Thanks for any additional help that you could offer and for all your past advice.


Regards, Ronnie

 

[spectrum]

I have the 14 lbs in the intergrated pockets of my BC and don't use any weight in the trim pockets. Besides this I must use a total of 3 pounds of weights on my ankles. I also use a alumi tank. I believe the wetsuit sizing is contributing to my problems with flloating feet. I use a Bare wetsuit. One of the reasons I purchased a Bare is because the company offered more choices of sizes. I am using a Medium Large / Short which is closes to my body measurements. The chest size for this wetsuit is 39 - 41 inches, my chest size is 42 inchs so it fits snug. However the waist size is 33 - 35 inches and my waist is only 31 inches. The wetsuit hip size is 39 to 41 inches and my hips are only 34 inches. I believe the extra larger size of the wetsuit from the waist down is causing this problem. As I mentioned without the wetsuit on, using just a swimsuit, everything is perfect and ankle weights are not needed.

I would prefer to move my tank more towards my legs. I am not sure how low I can position the tank. keeping in mind I don't want to lose it in the water.

Thanks for any additional help that you could offer and for all your past advice.


Regards, Ronnie

BARE is cool, I have 4 of their items. It does sound like you have more neoprene on the lower body than needed in spite of the extra sizes. That is not helping your situation as you state. If that was the best fit you could get off the rack consider tailoring or a cutsom suit. Do so if not for bouyancy control then for warmth. That extra volume will not be your friend.

If your cylinder is already banded near the crown then you can't go down anymore.

If your cylinder extends down below where your integrated weights are then a camstrap with some off the weight near the tank bottom may shift the balance. A weighted tank boot(s) is also an option if you own your cylinder(s) Just remember that in either of these plans you will be moving some weight to non-ditchable.

I'm not sure that going to a steel tanks will help since that will probably concentrate the weight over your lungs and reduce the loose weights that you can configure.

Pete

 

[CIBDiving]

I have the 14 lbs in the intergrated pockets of my BC and don't use any weight in the trim pockets. Besides this I must use a total of 3 pounds of weights on my ankles. I also use a alumi tank. I believe the wetsuit sizing is contributing to my problems with flloating feet. <snip>
I would prefer to move my tank more towards my legs. I am not sure how low I can position the tank. keeping in mind I don't want to lose it in the water.

Thanks for any additional help that you could offer and for all your past advice.

Regards, Ronnie

Because the bouyancy of the bottle changes, You only want to correct the bottle position so that there is no or very little Change in trim as the dive progresses. In other words, you don't want to depend on the tank being ,say, 4 lbs negative to give you the right trim because at the end of the dive that same tank maybe 4 lbs positive.
That said - if the bottle is always to heavy or too lite then moving it is OK.

Do you have adjustable shoulders on your BC? if so let a little out. that'll move the bottle south and move your waist weight south too. If not a camband with a small amount of lead is a good option, it's just a small pain to change it out with each tank.
I'd place 2 2lbs weights ( don't forget to remove that much from the BC!) so that they fit comfortably on each side of the tank close to your body ( That keeps 'roll' trim more controlable ), adjust up/down the bottle as needed. Just remember that if trim changes during the dive than reposition the tank and correct the camband placement to match.

 

[Ronniemu]

How close to the crown of the tank can I buckle the belt? I have a Seaquest Balance BCD and don't believe it's adjustable. Also, I don't know what a camband is.

Thanks to everyone for be so helpful !!!!!!


Ronnie

 

[CIBDiving]

How close to the crown of the tank can I buckle the belt? I have a Seaquest Balance BCD and don't believe it's adjustable. Also, I don't know what a camband is.

Thanks to everyone for be so helpful !!!!!!


Ronnie

I looked on leisurepro.com at the pix of your BC it looks like it is adjustable, but i'm not sure. to adjust ( if it does ) find the plastic D ring that comes up from the back/top of the waist band and meets the shoulder straps.You want to let that out all the way so that the D ring is right at the strap. that's as tall as the bc gets. you make it shorter by pulling those D rings ( one on each shoulder strap ) out.

Upon further research ------

The pink arrow points to the adjustment point, The Dring is at the bottom of the white outline.

A camband is the band that holds the tank on the BC -they are available seperatly for $15 - $50.
here's a link -
http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/Item...SKU&SortDesc=False&SearchTerm=tank+band&Hit=0

I almost forgot you can put the tank strap all the way up just don't go past where tha neck starts to get smaller.

 

[matt_unique]

Use whatever dive tools you need for trim. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using ankle weights at any skill level contrary to what many will suggest here. There are many reasons to wear ankle weights in addition to trim issues. Ankle weights are common in the Northeast at all skill levels for example. There are other areas where ankle weights are not as common.

When I dive in a technical configuration I don't wear ankle weights. When I dive in a recreational configuration I wear ankle weights because I like to distribute lead off my back area. The ankle weights actually work counter to trim because I float feet down with or without ankle weights. Ankle weights will not affect your SAC rate, finning effort, etc. in any measureable way.

There could be things going on with your trim that could negate the need for lower body trim offered via ankle weights. Tank placement, suit style, suit type, BC/Wing harness adjustments, body type/shape, fin type, other dive gear placed on your system, etc. If you prioritize not wearing ankle weights for any reason, start with these items. If in the end your total system is such that you need lower body trim, don't be afraid to use them.

--Matt

 

[CIBDiving]

Ankle weights will not affect your SAC rate, finning effort, etc. in any measureable way.

I'll agree with everything else but this. It takes extra effort to start and stop that weight, and it will effect the effort used. How much difference seems to vary - It effects a flutter kick most, I believe, but has very little noticable effect on a frog kick.

 

[matt_unique]

I'll agree with everything else but this. It takes extra effort to start and stop that weight, and it will effect the effort used. How much difference seems to vary - It effects a flutter kick most, I believe, but has very little noticable effect on a frog kick.

It physically takes more effort to move weight but from a practical standpoint you would not be able to measure a difference in SAC rate or anything else. Many say the same about carrying extra gear. SAC rate is affected most significantly by anxiety, effort (from say hunting or from photography), current, etc. but not the small stuff like whether you are wearing ankle weights, are slightly overweighted, carrying a flashlight, etc. If I do dive #1 with optimal trim, weight, no extra gear, etc. Then do dive #2 at the same site under the same conditions with a reel and 5lbs of extra lead it will not affect my air consumed one bit.

Obviously it's a good goal to be streamlined and weighted properly but the practical impact of many of these things is exaggerated.

--Matt