Question on SD vs HD for amateur videographer

[PerroneFord]

I was able to play the 720p at work, and the lack of true resolution was starting to show up. I'd say that would probably be the limit for even the best miniDV. What did you think of the colors and motion? Did it seem film-like to you?

 

[limeyx]

I was able to play the 720p at work, and the lack of true resolution was starting to show up. I'd say that would probably be the limit for even the best miniDV. What did you think of the colors and motion? Did it seem film-like to you?

The low-res looked absolutely stunning. the 720P looked like it had more pixellation, but motion sucked, although this was because my mac just could not keep up ... (to be fair, Firefox seems to be teh sux0r these days and routinely sucks up 20-50% CPU after I do any bulletin boards or open any media)

 

[PerroneFord]

I agree the low-res looked great. Amazing that we are looking at streaming web video. I am sure the original looks beautiful. I would hope people would look at those videos as an example of what you can do with miniDV from a VERY good camera. That's about the upper limit of possibility. A professional upres, a professional color grade, and shot by a guy with real talent.

What's going to be interesting, is with the new Panasonic, 24mb AVCHD should give FAR better resolution than miniDV, along with a lot of the same look. I'd imagine at that bit rate, it will be signficanly cleaner than HDV. The fact that they are using SDHC cards will be a boon to videographers. No more messy tape.

If Sony follows suit, and provides the next generation of prosumer cams with similar features, and a LANC port, underwater videographers should rejoice. I really hope the housing manufacturers get behind Scarlet. But knowing them, they won't. And the RED boyz will have to come up with something. Gates may support it though.

 

[CompuDude]

I am intrigued by this Scarlet and RED of which you speak.

Linky-link?

My god I feel out of touch... I used to know all this crap.

 

[PerroneFord]

The fountain of knowledge:

RED / Index

 

[PerroneFord]

The RED project was an attempt to kick sand in the face of the establishment. To one up Sony, and Panasonic in the world of hi-res digital video. To step into the world of Panavision and Arri and give a viable electronic solution to film. Many said it couldn't be done. Unfortunately for the naysayers, they were wrong. Not only were they wrong, but RED has done exactly what it said it would do and prices from 1/5 to 1/10 that of it's "competition".

Scarlet is the shot across the bow in the prosumer market. A camera at around $3k to $4.5 that shoots better than full HD resolution. The idea of downresing to HD is amazing. And right now, the only 2k cameras out there that I am aware of are the DALSA and Silicon Imaging. Both of which retail over $100k. Now to be sure, those cameras are in a different league than Scarlet, but the boldness to bring those kinds of resolutions to the masses at this stage of the game is amazing.

Yes, there are kinks to work out. Yes, the workflow is tricky still. But the fact is, there are people actually shooting RED for a living right now.

For giggles, and NAB last week, the RED camp annouced a 5k imaging camera. IMAX is 8k. To put the dollars in perspective:

Panasonic Varicam: ~ $80k + lenses. Shoots HD
Sony F23: ~$125k + lenses. Shoots HD (but BOY it looks good!)
Panavision Genesis: ~$500k + lenses. Shoots 4k maybe? Not sure really.
RED One: ~$17.5k + lenses. Shoots 4k, 2k, 1080p
Scarlet: ~$3.5k including lens. Shooks 3k, 2k, 1080p

Making sense?

 

[Empty V]

I think you meant the Panavision Genesis right? I don't think you can actually purchase one, available only for rental I could be wrong though. Let's also not forget the Arricam D21 boasting a real optical viewfinder (don't ask me why that's so great because I see no logic) which IMO is Panavision's biggest competition in the Feature industry and and the Grassvalley Viper Filmstream comes in a close 3rd. I'm a huge fan of the Varicam and what they did with it for the Planet Earth series. The scarlet is intriguing and sounds very tempting. I just might have to start saving my quarters and entire paychecks. The Red as I've stated a few times still needs some work, at least from my limited experience with it but i've only dealt with it in post. We'll have plenty to talk about on the 4th Kalani. Just don't get too wrapped up with doubles talk with Robert.

Billy

 

[CompuDude]

Interesting. I shudder to think at the storage requirements, though!

 

[limeyx]

Interesting. I shudder to think at the storage requirements, though!

Not as bad as you might think. The signal is compressed using wavlets which reduce 4K down to rates that you can get with a (high-end) Compact flash card 28MBYTES/second. Still not nothing (you get about 4.5 mins on the 8MB cards I thin) but definitely better than trying to handle uncompressed

And while RED may have a way to go in post, it is improving, and can be done but is really hung up on a stable SDK from RED, which is supposed to be coming RSN but is not quite there yet for a variety of reasons (I believe)

 

[PerroneFord]

I think you meant the Panavision Genesis right?

DOH! Corrected.

I don't think you can actually purchase one, available only for rental I could be wrong though.

I don't think they are making enough of them to sell them.

Let's also not forget the Arricam D21 boasting a real optical viewfinder (don't ask me why that's so great because I see no logic) which IMO is Panavision's biggest competition in the Feature industry and and the Grassvalley Viper Filmstream comes in a close 3rd.

Yea, the D21. James Cameron had a very funny quote about it. It's huge for no reason other than to make the guys used to massive film cameras feel at home. I had NO numbers for the Viper, but of course you are correct. The Filmstream is a terrific camera by all accounts, but oddly enough, on the Cloverfield project, the cinematographer much preferred the look of the F23 and felt it performed better.

I'm a huge fan of the Varicam and what they did with it for the Planet Earth series.

The Varicam produces images out of all proportion for it's cost. It's a beautiful camera.

The scarlet is intriguing and sounds very tempting. I just might have to start saving my quarters and entire paychecks.

For underwater work, the Scarlet is going to have some major challenges. Not the least of which is the location of it's controls. Unless some type of LANC control is placed on the camera, it may be totally unsuitable. I still want one though. Even more than I'd want a RED.