Question for the married folks out there...

[NadMat]

Especially the guys, but both sides welcome to comment and enlighten me.

As a single guy, I realize I have it easier scheduling my time, especially when in between any SO in my life. And I know that for those married folks and anyone in any type of committed relationship adjustments and compromises must be made. But I have decided that many of my married compadres are either total henpecked wussys or that someone is lying to someone or at least failing to communicate effectively.

Case in point, buddy of mine wants some help learning stratagies and procedures to back up his important data on a regular basis, and has scheduled to get together several times, always having to cancel last minute because something 'came up'. Latest reschedule was to do it today sometime, and I called this morning to find out exactly when, so that I could plan my day. Upon calling his house this morning and talking with his wife, I found out from her that he is at another friends ranch property this morning, is supposed to be running errands for/with her the rest of the day, and that she has not heard a word about the plan for us to get together so he can learn some backup procedures and stratagies. I believe in this case that it is most likely the hubbys fault and he did not discuss his desire to get together with me for instruction on backup and a beer or two. But this seems to happen frequently to both me and other singles I know and causes seems to vary between misscommunication, lack of communication, the SO overiding the planned and communicated event for another they have decided on, with occasional outright lies by one or the other to each other or to me being thrown into the mix.

So, the questions are, do you as married or commited couple feel that the time and schedule of the single person is of less value than yours because they are not currently in a relationship? That the single persons schedule is the one that should be continually modified because of your failure to communicate effectively with each other? And is it right for you to lie about about the facts to the single person because you don't want to reveal the communication breakdown in your relationship?

I am not trying to judge anybody, but would like to get some insight into the other side. As various buddies get more committed or married in their relationship, and have kids, I realize that their time and schedule becomes busier and harder to schedule, but am getting tired of hearing 'this is definitely on' over and over again, adjusting my plans and perhaps turning down opportunities to do other things to meet their schedule demands only to find that definitely on meant ' unless my SO decides on something else in the meantime'. And 'sorry about that' doesn't mean as much to me the third, fourth, or fifth time around.

If I drop by at their house unannounced with some cold ones for a BS session, I am likely to get cold steely looks from SO, and be told that 'it is not a good time' but they continue to do same to me and often insist on hanging out whether I have other plans or not, sometimes suggesting ' do what you got to do, but can I just hang here for a while to get away from house for a while' ? Should I just drop all my committed friends? These are long time friends going back 10,15 and 20 or more years, none of these guys or gals would have dreamed of doing this before the relationship became 'committed' but within a few months to a year of the commitment becoming 'serious' it becomes the norm.

Maybe this should be posted in Whine&Cheeze, and if mods feel it is more appropriate there then so be it, but was not meant to be a 'rant' but a honest attempt to find out the other sides view on this, and perhaps enlighten them as to the singles side of their actions.

 

[wedivebc]

If I wish to be somewhere I will consult my wife and see what her plans are. Her plans usually take precedence over other plans mainly because she usually lets me do as I please (she is a non-diver so lots of give and take). Having made plans with someone I am usually there and on time. I get annoyed when people change plans involving me without my knowledge.
It sounds to me like your friend was a lot less interested in this plan that you were and bailed. I don't think it is a spousal issue in the least.

 

[TSandM]

It sounds like you have some flaky friends, and possibly also some friends who aren't dealing with their relationships very well.

I doubt that anybody makes a conscious decision that the time/schedule of a single friend is less important than the time/schedule of a married couple. What happens is that somebody says, "Sure, I'd love to hang out with you on Saturday," without even considering whether that is going to fly at home. Then they get home and think, "Woops, this is not going to go over well." Or they tell their partner what they have planned and the you-know-what hits the fan. And then maybe they feel guilty, or maybe they really ARE guilty of blowing off the relationship one too many times, so they cancel on you. The cancellation is the result of somebody screwing up and then taking the path of least resistance -- the guy's sure you won't hassle him and he KNOWS his SO will.

You are the safe one to cancel on -- He doesn't have to sit across the dinner table from you, or sleep on the couch because he annoyed you. You won't divorce him and make him lose his boat/car/house/whatever.

The line about "Can I hang here for a while to get away from the house" just reinforces my suspicion that these are relationships that aren't being managed very well.

All you can do is be frank with your friends about how their behavior affects you and how you feel about it. Then, if they persist in being flaky, don't make any plans with them that you'd be annoyed about having cancelled. (I have a couple of flaky friends, and I've learned not to make plans with them that would preclude doing something else I really want to do, because then, when they fail to show or flake out on me, I'm not really bothered about it.)

 

[Sandbar]

And this one time...at band camp...

 

[NadMat]

hey web, thanks for your views. And I would agree except that it happens with most of my friends as they become married or seriously committed. While the example given is of a specific buddy and sort of inspired this post, it happens with at least a dozen long time buddies on a semi frequent basis. And often later info seems to indicate that they knew about possibilities of conflict in schedule long before I was informed. I am trying to figure out why they can't be more upfront about it either with me or with each other. I am trying to figure out why showing up at another 'married' friends kids last minute Bday party is more important than the plans they had to get together with me for past two weeks or more. Or why they can't just call me 3 days before when SO informs them that other plans have come up, rather than waiting till last minute or in case of a last minute invite just remind the SO that they had plans with me for over a week so they will not be able to go.

And it is not just me, as many of my still single friends see the same thing happening to them. Are they just to busy to remember? They have more than enough time to call me about getting together, and always seem to remember that we have plans to get together, but not only continually change and postpone plans but wait till last minute to inform me.

I believe that with many of my male friends it is a lack of communication with their SO combined with a male ego thing not wanting to admit that they are not the last and only word in the scheduling of their time, as it seems to happen more frequently with my male buddies than my female buddies, but that may just be because I have more longtime male friends than female.

I know that in the stated example he is interested as he is first to bring it up in conversation. If try to schedule something that is not high on his priorty list at moment, like a ride on some single track, or breaking away for a dive, or even just meeting for some BS and a couple of brews he is pretty upfront about saying that he would love to be able, but just doesn't have time available for a while, and ask him again in a month or so. And as said before, he is not alone, just the most recent and a rather glaring example as plans have been put off for last few months.

It happens with both couples with and without kids, and in one working spouse and both spouses working couples with about the same frequency. If I suggest just 'forgetting about' a planned and multiply rescheduled event, whether was originally an event suggested by me or by them, the answer is almost always along lines of 'no, lets set a date to do this'. So are they lying to me about there desire to do this, or lying to themselves about their ablility to do this? Just trying to get a handle on where they may be coming from, and figure out what I can do to improve the situation other than just abandoning longtime friends to their family and job commitments.

When I do just get fed up and quit calling them trying to get together and do something they want to know why I am 'ignoring them'. When I suggest events and activities that would involve their families, such as a day in the park with a playground area for kids and paved gravel hike and bike paths that are more rideable by all rather than a more challenging single track trail that would have been our prefered choice in past they seem unable to get such a thing scheduled with family. Two of old dive buddies are continually talking about how they want to get out and dive, but when suggest we get out and do it cannot seem to get 'kitchen pass' to get out without family, and when suggest we make it a family lake day or afternoon with some picnicing and boat rides planned around a quick 30 or 40 minute dive that seems to also be an impossiblity.

So I believe it does in some way relate to the spousal thing, just wanting to know in what way. If I can figure out why, perhaps I can figure a way to make it more doable for SO. That would beat just giving up on getting together with longtime friends, which is the direction I am currently heading in, telling them when they wonder why they haven't heard from me that I have moved on and am spending time with others that seem more willing to get out and actually do things rather than just planning and talking about doing things and then calling plans off.

I could understand if I was wanting to continually go out partying and barhopping, but we are talking about an afternoon at the park or the lake, going for a bike ride or a dive, or just hanging out grilling some meat and having a couple of beers. It is actually easier to get them to go out and meet at a bar than other healthier and more family friendly things, which leads me to believe I may be considered a bad influence by SO
since that is what we do end up doing, despite my attempts to plan other things.

Am I the 'other world' per seinfeld and george's worlds colliding theory? What would be the best way to appoach this issue with my buds, as past attempts to ask them directly 'why' are invariably answered with "we're just busy"? If they are that that busy, then just say so in first place rather than giving go ahead to planned event and cancelling at last minute, I would even be happy with four or five days notice of need to reschedule or cancel, instead of hearing about it the day of or day before.

Hence this thread, which is both an attempt to get a view of 'the other side' and to possibly help those overly commited couples out there to get a view from the single side of things as well.

edit: TSandM- kind of what I was thinking, although only two of dozen or so friends who are now half of a couple pull the 'get away from house' thing.

 

[justleesa]

It goes both ways. I'm married and have a very flexible week and can always push something from one day to the next. Well my husbands old classmate (living in a LT relationship) moved here and kept wanting to meet up to this and that as we have many common interests. I would plan and she would call that today isn't a good day, her SO or daughter (18+) has something going on or what ever. The "appointment" is moved to another day.

Now if this happened once or twice I'd say OK...but it happened so often that I just don't plan with her anymore. She has now made several attempts to hook up and I find that I am just no longer interested in planning with her....don't get me wrong, I like her and get along with her just fine. I just gave it enough chances, lost interest in it and moved on.

I'd go so far to say that SO's or partners are often just welcome excuses too...

 

[Aquanautchuck]

Dang, you hit that one on the head. I have been divorced over 6 years and have run into this so much. I always get the feeling that they think as a single my time is less important than theres is. I learned that friends are important all the time. Just not when you are without SO. I am one of those people that when I say I will be there or do something with you I am there. It has to be a medical emergency for me to not be. I have learned how to say No to others when I have plans. I do not let my girlfriends dictate who I can see and when. If they do not like me diving, skiing, motocross racing or what ever and do not want to do it too bad. My time is important. In all relationships compromises are made but you still need to have individual interests. To be honest I have been know to tell a few guys to grow a pair of b*****s.

To often it seems a friend get in a relationship and they disappear not to resurface until they break up. If I plan something with a friend they get two of three chances. If they keep canceling then I tell them they have my number and to call. If they call to plan something such as a dive I invite others so that at least when they cancel again [and they will] my plans are not shot.

I make sure that I keep my friends in my life when I am in a relationship. My girlfriend understands this and even though she is not a diver enjoys the outdoors and my diving friends. And she makes one good looking boat tender for my Zodiac.

Charles

 

[TSandM]

It could be that your friends don't call you earlier because they're still hoping they can finagle a way to do what they want; it could be that they're embarassed to admit that they are cancelling yet again, and just procrastinate doing something that's going to be awkward. It could be that they are conflicted about wanting to do something and having to do something else, and are coping by just not thinking about it. People have all kinds of coping mechanisms, and some are more functional than others.

In my marriage, for many years I never went off alone and did anything with friends when my husband was available to be with. I saw my friends during his business trips, or during the day when he was at work. When I started diving, it felt really strange to say to him, "Hey, honey, I'm not going to be home for dinner tonight because I'm going diving." It has been a strange adaptation for both of us, and not without its rocky moments. But we've been married almost twenty years, so I'm not as worried about pushing the edge of the envelope as somebody younger and less settled into their relationship might be.

I think there's a tendency for couples to end up socializing mostly with other couples, and I also think that there's a tendency for couples to lose "his friends" and "her friends" and end up with "our friends". I know, when I was single, I was always sad to see a good friend get into a serious relationship, because I knew I would see so much less of her (or him).

I still think that you could just tell the people who are doing this how much it distresses you to have plans cancelled, and politely request earlier notice if plans are going to change. If the behavior persists, tell them you aren't going to make any firm plans with them any more, and if they come up with the time, they can call and see if you're around. That's what I have done with my flaky friends.

 

[NadMat]

As alway TSandM a very thoughtful and insightful post.

I have tried getting the message across with methods varying from, 'I wish I would have known about this earlier, I turned down X because I thought this was still on' to ' Dude, get a clue as to what your wife has planned before making some with me' and have actually used previous posters 'grow yourself a pair of b***s' when buddy cancelled on some plans that involved me dropping cash to reserve a site for a mtb weekend and wife (who had known about plans for at least two weeks) decided that they were going out to dinner with a couple that had dropped into town unannounced that Friday.

So I guess I am down to finding some 'new' buddies that are either single, or in a relationship with better communication and fewer 'issues'
I'll let my old buds know about my plans with new buddies and if they can show, great, if not, I still have something to do and someone to do it with.

At least I still have one longtime buddy who is up front about when he can and can't do things, and has the nuts to stand up to wife when she starts pulling to much 'my last minute plans are more important than what you have been looking forward to for past two weeks' crap.

 

[seadoggirl]

Marriage is an institution and love is blind.... I never want to be in an institution for the Blind