Question about swimming ability

[lamont]

If any new divers (or people thinking of taking up scuba dving) are still reading this thread, I suggest that you compare the dive profiles of those on both sides of the debate:
Those who claim that good swimming skills are not necessary to safely enjoy the sport are invariably either brand new divers or non-divers completely!

Those who urge strong swimming skills as a prerequisite are the veterans!

My profile does not reflect my dives. My average dive these days is 35 minutes at 100 fsw with max depth of 120 on doubles with 30/30 covering 3k ft out and back at depth. For complexity we're adding towing scooters and stage bottles for other teams and/or running line at depth with the scooters. This weekend I'll be doing a setup dive to 3,000 ft dropping stage bottles for the team going to 15k and then do a cleanup dive to 3k after they get back to probably pull 3 Al80 stage bottles and 2 scooters (per clean-up diver). I don't necessarily think that makes me a 'veteran' (if I'm doing the 3k drops for divers scootering out 15k, i'm clearly not a veteran by certain yardsticks), but i think i've passed well over the complete newbie status...

I still think the swimming thing is more about basic fitness and boater safety and not about scuba diving...

 

[lamont]

I noticed that you list no dive info in your profile plot. Are you a diver? If so, please let us know your experience level?

Its really laughable when your argument reduces to wanting to know how much of an authority the person giving the information is.

 

[Devil505]

Its really laughable when your argument reduces to wanting to know how much of an authority the person giving the information is.

I'll have to side with Jeddbird here Lamont. When the "information" the person is giving purports to be the result of personal experiences & is being given to individuals who may be risking their lives based on false or misleading statements, I also think the establishment of a few bonafides is in order.
It's a simple enough procedure to just fill in a dive profile so that we can better judge how much weight one's views (on alledged personal experiences) deserve.

 

[Jeddbird]

My profile does not reflect my dives. My average dive these days is 35 minutes at 100 fsw with max depth of 120 on doubles with 30/30 covering 3k ft out and back at depth. For complexity we're adding towing scooters and stage bottles for other teams and/or running line at depth with the scooters. This weekend I'll be doing a setup dive to 3,000 ft dropping stage bottles for the team going to 15k and then do a cleanup dive to 3k after they get back to probably pull 3 Al80 stage bottles and 2 scooters (per clean-up diver). I don't necessarily think that makes me a 'veteran' (if I'm doing the 3k drops for divers scootering out 15k, i'm clearly not a veteran by certain yardsticks), but i think i've passed well over the complete newbie status...

I still think the swimming thing is more about basic fitness and boater safety and not about scuba diving...

As Animal Mother says to Joker in Stanley Kubrick's movie Full Metal Jacket

"You talk the talk.......but..... Do you walk the walk?

 

[plot]

Up to this point I've only been a fresh water diver. Maybe things are different in the ocean, but I've never had to use my swimming abilities while actually diving.

I'm not a skydiver either, but yet I still find myself often getting on airplanes. Guess that's pretty stupid of me huh?

 

[Devil505]

Repost from Drewski in another thread ........


Let me tell you a little story about swimming...

Back when I was a younger and DUMBER man, I was really ate up about the need to go diving on "the spur of a moment." So, one morning I decided to round up a few buddies and head out to the Morgan, a liberty ship about 30 miles or so off Virginia Beach.

Unfortunately, I could only get one other buddy (a fellow instructor who shall remain nameless) but, we figured "what the heck?," piled into my boat and took off. It was a GREAT day, warm, blue sky, FLAT as a coffee table. We both were wreck divers, had full gear, doubles, etc. Originally, we were going to dive solo, but, AGAINST MY BETTER JUDGEMENT, we decided to dive together and leave the boat unattended on the surface. Now, we can argue all day about solo diving, but let's just say that wasn't the REAL issue in question.

So, to "protect" us, we hooked into the wreck, geared up, and made the descent down the anchor line. We had hooked into a center section of the wreck and had planned to follow the outer edge around and back. Our profile was about 110 FT for 30 minutes with a 10 FT stop. We planned our dive on landmarks, knowing our position and the position of the anchor line.

BUT, things don't always go as planned. We came off the wreck to explore the debris field, planning to go back to the hull landmark and continue our circuit. We started digging at a spot that looked interesting and before we knew it we hit max bottom time. Realizing our mistake, we quickly turned and headed back to the wreck only to find we had lost orientation. Thinking "OK, no big deal," we attempted to reacquire orientation and find the anchor line. By the time we figured where we were, another 5 minutes had passed and we were pushing closer to long decompression. To avoid this, we decided to institute "emergency" decompression procedures.

We'd always carry 200' of brown twine in a BC pocket in case we got in this predicament. I tied off the twine to a piece of wreckage, both of us secured to it and we began our ascent. When we got close to the surface the first thing we noticed was that waves had come up that weren't there when we descended. We also noticed that a surface current had picked up, causing about a 20 degree angle on our ascent line because of the pull. We added air, became slightly buoyant, and began to bounce up and down with the wave action. About 5 minutes into the stop, the ascent line snapped and we began to drift.

Now I've been in tight situations before, but this one started to worry me. It was about 5 PM, in the summer, and no one else was on the wreck when we went down. We had at least 20 minutes more of decompression and neither of us planned to surface unless we ran out of air (both of us had more than 1000 PSI remaining). So, we stayed calm, remained at depth after buoyancy adjustment, and did a "drift decompression stop." Believe me when I say I'll NEVER do that again.

When we surfaced after this little adventure I immediately did a 360 looking for the boat. NO BOAT. The waves were running about 1 to 2 FT now, so I realized I probably couldn't see it. I stripped out of my gear, inflated my BC to float the tanks, and "stood" up on my fins. It took 3 times of doing a 360 until I spotted the boat. I could only see it by the reflection off the windshield and I knew we were in BIG trouble. My buddy, a fellow instructor, was a smoker and he said "no way man, I can't do it. Pick me up after you get it." Smiling, he held onto my gear, laid back and waved good-bye. Using my compass (this is why you should always have a WRIST compass), I shot a course to the boat, reversed it, turned on my back, and started the swim. More than 1 hour later, I climbed on the boat tired, but VERY happy.

Not wanting to screw around I buoyed the hook, lined up on course and 20 minutes later picked up my buddy. INCREDIBLY, he was smoking a cigarette when I got to him. It seems he always carried a couple with him in a baggy while diving "just in case." I asked him what "just in case" meant and he replied he wasn't worried because he knew I could make the swim. He didn't light up until he saw me coming.

So, the moral of this LONG story? ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, realize that SWIMMING is part of DIVING. Especially if you plan to act STUPID like we did.

As far as carrying "just in case" smokes, well, I'll leave that to you...

Peace..
__________________

 

[wallacm]

For Padi, my 50 year old uncle, a big rig truck driver of 25 years, and a 5 pack a day smoker of cowboy killers, was able to swim the requirement. He said it was a little tough but he was able to do it, so i think you will be fine

 

[lamont]

thats not swimming, that's kicking on your back with fins and a buoyant exposure suit on.... if you can jog for an hour straight and have basic cardiovascular fitness and endurance you should be able to do that...

swimming is swim trunks, goggles and doing the crawl... which takes a whole additional set of skills... learning how to breathe and then learning the stroke so that you can do it efficiently...

 

[Devil505]

Here's the dictionary defintion of swimming:

Main Entry: 1swim
Pronunciation: 'swim
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): swam /'swam/; swum /'sw&m/; swim·ming
Etymology: Middle English swimmen, from Old English swimman; akin to Old High German swimman to swim
intransitive verb
1 a : to propel oneself in water by natural means (as movements of the limbs, fins, or tail) b : to play in the water (as at a beach or swimming pool)
2 : to move with a motion like that of swimming : GLIDE <a cloud swam slowly across the moon>
3 a : to float on a liquid : not sink b : to surmount difficulties : not go under <sink or swim, live or die, survive or perish -- Daniel Webster>
4 : to become immersed in or flooded with or as if with a liquid <potatoes swimming in gravy>
5 : to have a floating or reeling appearance or sensation
transitive verb
1 a : to cross by propelling oneself through water <swim a stream> b : to execute in swimming
2 : to cause to swim or float
- swim·mer noun


Whether you use things to assist you or not, you are still swimming. My point is that swimming is not merely a cardiovascular exercise like playing tennis or bowling where you can just stop at any time..... Your brain always knows that your body is in a potentialy life threatening medium (ie...water) & that realiztion adds a whole different dimension & pressure that can easily lead to panic & death. Minimizing this truth to weak swimmers considering taking up the sport is reckless.

 

[lamont]

Here's the dictionary defintion of swimming:

Main Entry: 1swim
Pronunciation: 'swim
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): swam /'swam/; swum /'sw&m/; swim·ming
Etymology: Middle English swimmen, from Old English swimman; akin to Old High German swimman to swim
intransitive verb
1 a : to propel oneself in water by natural means (as movements of the limbs, fins, or tail) b : to play in the water (as at a beach or swimming pool)
2 : to move with a motion like that of swimming : GLIDE <a cloud swam slowly across the moon>
3 a : to float on a liquid : not sink b : to surmount difficulties : not go under <sink or swim, live or die, survive or perish -- Daniel Webster>
4 : to become immersed in or flooded with or as if with a liquid <potatoes swimming in gravy>
5 : to have a floating or reeling appearance or sensation
transitive verb
1 a : to cross by propelling oneself through water <swim a stream> b : to execute in swimming
2 : to cause to swim or float
- swim·mer noun


Whether you use things to assist you or not, you are still swimming. My point is that swimming is not merely a cardiovascular exercise like playing tennis or bowling where you can just stop at any time..... Your brain always knows that your body is in a potentialy life threatening medium (ie...water) & that realiztion adds a whole different dimension & pressure that can easily lead to panic & death. Minimizing this truth to weak swimmers considering taking up the sport is reckless.

As someone who just recently went through the process of learning how to swim, I really don't care what the dictionary says. You can be perfectly comfortable on, around and in the water without knowing how to swim -- and you can have the cardiovascular fitness necessary to kick for an hour without knowing how to swim. The process of learning how to swim involves a lot more than just cardiovascular fitness and comfort in the water. It is, however, an excellent way to get cardiovacularly fit and to gain comfort in the water. However, learning how to swim didn't help me in the slightest become more comfortable in the water, so your logic that all divers must become swimmers in order to become comfortable in the water is flawed. It does not follow. OTOH, it is valid to state that swimming is an excellent way for divers who have anxiety over being in the water to become more comfortable.