Question about Nitrogen Narcosis

[Sas]

Perhaps you could educate me all about Narcosis then since I seem to know little about it. And why would I do a test tying knots in cold water with bad vis when I never dive those conditions?

A lot of people dive in cold water, with bad currents, poor viz, etc. If you are going to comment on how narcosis is overblown, you should have at least experienced the different types of conditions that people face when diving.

I guess we know different people then because I don't know anyone who is ashamed or embarrassed by it. I just don't know many divers who are affected by it. And I've heard plenty of people say, "I must have been narced this or I must have been narced that" or "that was the nitrogen talking" when they have been on a shallow reef dive to 40ft. Get real.

I agree that shallow reef dives to 40ft are highly unlikely to cause narcosis. I don't believe anybody mentioned people getting narced on 40ft dives... Also I didn't say I knew people who were ashamed or embarrassed by it, I said people I know tend to downplay the narcosis they experience. And given you don't dive in cold water with poor viz and dodgy currents, then I am sure we know very different groups of divers

Of course it should be considered when trying new depths but how do you know how it's going to affect you until you go to those depths? You gotta go to know. I just don't want the OP to be afraid of it and decide not to go to deeper depths because of what MIGHT happen.

Well if someone really fears narcosis, I wouldn't recommend that they dive deep to find out what it is like actually so I don't think 'You gotta go to know'. Being fearful of the type of dive you are about to do does not bode well for the dive itself. I didn't get the sense that the OP was unduly worried by it and was just seeking information before deciding on what dive to do, which I think is a smart idea. As they mentioned 60' dives, they are unlikely to encounter narcosis at this depth anyway so it is most likely a non-issue. If they were talking about 130' dives for the first time, I would have advised to be more careful as some people are very susceptible to narcosis and whilst you won't know this until you try it, there are steps you can take to reduce the risks of narcosis if you are susceptible (i.e. having a good instructor around to keep an eye on you)

Never said that none of my 150 friends had never been narced. I said they had never talked about having hallucinations. Of course maybe they are downplaying that deep dark secret.

I don't know any diver who has had hallucinations either. I don't think that makes any difference to either of our two points of view.

 

[BDSC]

A lot of people dive in cold water, with bad currents, poor viz, etc. If you are going to comment on how narcosis is overblown, you should have at least experienced the different types of conditions that people face when diving.

If my opinion is in general that I think narcosis is overblown, then it matters not what the conditions are. While narcosis may be more of a factor in those conditions than the warm clear waters of the caribbean, my opinion wouldn't change.


Well if someone really fears narcosis, I wouldn't recommend that they dive deep to find out what it is like actually so I don't think 'You gotta go to know'. Being fearful of the type of dive you are about to do does not bode well for the dive itself. I didn't get the sense that the OP was unduly worried by it and was just seeking information before deciding on what dive to do, which I think is a smart idea. As they mentioned 60' dives, they are unlikely to encounter narcosis at this depth anyway so it is most likely a non-issue. If they were talking about 130' dives for the first time, I would have advised to be more careful as some people are very susceptible to narcosis and whilst you won't know this until you try it, there are steps you can take to reduce the risks of narcosis if you are susceptible (i.e. having a good instructor around to keep an eye on you)

Then how will a person ever know until they go deeper? Yes. A person can take all kinds of precautions when going deeper but UNTIL YOU GO DEEPER , you can never know how you will be affected. So, you really do GOTTA GO TO KNOW.

BDSC

 

[Sas]

If my opinion is in general that I think narcosis is overblown, then it matters not what the conditions are. While narcosis may be more of a factor in those conditions than the warm clear waters of the caribbean, my opinion wouldn't change.

Narcosis is exacerbated by things such as cold water, heavy workload due to Co2 retention, tiredness, medication, etc. So conditions ARE very important when it comes to discussing narcosis. If you have never experienced the predisposing factors to narcosis, what makes you think you are qualified to comment on whether or not it is overblown?

Then how will a person ever know until they go deeper? Yes. A person can take all kinds of precautions when going deeper but UNTIL YOU GO DEEPER , you can never know how you will be affected. So, you really do GOTTA GO TO KNOW.

If someone never wants to experience narcosis, then they are not required to do a deep dive to find out what it is like. That is my point, you don't ever have to dive below 100' if you don't want to risk narcosis. If you do want to dive deeper but are concerned about narcosis, then of course, try it out and take precautions doing so. There has not been any arguments against that here.

 

[Noboundaries]

As an AOW recreational diver, unless there's a reason to go below 60 feet (that's where the bottom is, wreck, pinnacle top, etc), I haven't found much difference between the sights at 100 feet and the sights at 30 feet. The one exception is the sea life. There's a lot more sea life to see in general at the shallower depths.

 

[BDSC]

As an AOW recreational diver, unless there's a reason to go below 60 feet (that's where the bottom is, wreck, pinnacle top, etc), I haven't found much difference between the sights at 100 feet and the sights at 30 feet. The one exception is the sea life. There's a lot more sea life to see in general at the shallower depths.

I pretty much agree with you. Since I have been doing underwater video, I seldom find myself much below 60 to 75ft unless it's a wreck.

It just amazes me how when you state an opinion on here people like to jump all over you. Like Saspotato telling me unless I have dove in XWZ conditions, I don't have a valid opinion on nacosis. You can clearly state that XWZ conditions can play a role in narcosis, but that doesn't seem to matter. She's probably a subject matter expert.

BDSC

 

[wedivebc]

It amazes me that so many people hold such strong opinions about something so little understood by the scientific community.
When I first started diving I was laughed at when I reported that I experienced at 90ft. Later I dove much deeper on air with no effect (that I was aware of).
When ever I read these threads I am reminded of this little nugget:

Author Bret Gilliam7 described a 1965 study conducted by Tom Mount, a pioneer in U.S. cave diving, and Dr. Gilbert Milner. They studied the effects of “anticipated behavior modeling” with respect to perceived and observed (subjective vs. objective) effects and the probability of experiencing nitrogen narcosis.
In this experiment, three groups of divers received information regarding the topic of nitrogen narcosis:

• Group 1 was told that there was a high probability of experiencing the effects of nitrogen narcosis — in fact, they were told that everyone experienced severe symptoms at 130 feet / 40 meters.
• Individuals in Group 2 were informed that there was such a state as nitrogen narcosis, but that this was relatively rare and only a few people experienced symptoms at depth.
• The final group received a lecture regarding the recognition of symptoms, risks and dangers, but were told that persons with a strong will were able to resist and / or overcome symptoms of narcosis.

In test dives between 130 and 240 feet (40 and 73 meters), the group who expected to experience symptoms of narcosis actually experienced these symptoms with greater frequency and severity than did persons in the other groups. Dr. Maxie Maultsby, a proponent of rational behavioral therapy, discussed what he termed “negative self-talk,” our habit of continuing in a pattern of maladaptive responses — in this case, our continuing to tell ourselves that we can’t handle a situation. However, Maultsby maintains that, if we can talk ourselves into a pattern, we can also talk ourselves back out.8

 

[ScubaSteve]

Let's all just go for a nice Narcosis free shallow dive

 

[BDSC]

Let's all just go for a nice Narcosis free shallow dive

I'm all for that.

BDSC

 

[Dive n00b]

Thanks all... I read through your whole discussion, overall it has really helped me to understand narcosis and the issues around it.

Cheers guys!

 

[J.R.]

It just amazes me how when you state an opinion on here people like to jump all over you. Like Saspotato telling me unless I have dove in XWZ conditions, I don't have a valid opinion on nacosis.

With respect, I think you may be missing the point here.

To truely appreciate the effect and danger of narcosis you really need to be the BUDDY of the narked guy... and need his assistance. He doesn't have to be seeing things to scare the heck out of you... simply has to have difficulty remembering how to turn your J-valve on...

[That was 38 years ago... some things you never forget...]