Question about Nitrogen Narcosis

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First of all Dive nOOb, congrats on getting certifed and I hope you enjoy many years of scuba diving. I know I have!

I understand the question you are asking because I had that same question when I was first certified. I had always heard about being "narced" and the so called "rapture of the deep". But what I have found over the years is that for me, it was much ado about nothing.

During the first year or so of diving as I began to go deeper and deeper, I kept waiting for that "narced" feeling and all or any of those symptoms that are associated with it. Never happened. Even when I was doing some shipwrecks off the coast of North Carolina where the dives are usually 100 ft. or more........nothing. I felt no different at 50, 100, or 100+. But I would have people tell me that I was "narced" but just didn't know it. So a few years back a dive buddy and myself did a little test in Bonaire.

We decided to do a simple test ot tying a knot (like you would tie your shoe) at different depths. (We both took turns tying the knots.) We decided to tie the knot 5 times at each depth and take an average of the times. We first tied the knot at 25ft....then 50ft.....then 100ft....then 130 ft. I don't have the numbers in front of me but the times were almost identical. The fastest time was actually recorded at 100ft. as I remember. We were both a little surprised at the results because we thought it would have at least been a little slower at depth. Of course the only thing this really proves is that we can tie knots underwater 20 times each. But it satisfied me that what I had thought all along for ME was true, there is nothing much to being "narced".

I know this type of thing affects people differently and you have to be in tuned with what your body or mind is telling you when you are diving, but I do think the whole thing is overblown. Just because a person feels "happy" underwater doesn't mean they are nacred. Maybe they are just having a great time. And if someone finds themselves laughing, maybe they just saw something funny. And if a person does something stupid while diving, could be they were just stupid at that particular moment or just not thinking.

It just seems to me that people like to say they were "narced" because it either sounds cool to their friends or it is used to excuse their behavior when diving. But you will find out all of this for yourself as you dive more and go deeper. Just don't let the idea of being "narced" keep you from enjoying diving or trying new depths if you want to go deeper. I think you're gonna find the same thing I did.

BDSC
 
I know this type of thing affects people differently.......
I would say that with this statement, you are correct.

.......I do think the whole thing is overblown.......

I would say that with this statement you could not be more more incorrect. Please refer to TS&M's post earlier (or do a search on her posts about Narcosis where she tells her story about hallucinations) and decide if you still believe this. Narcosis is not unlike drinking and driving. When it happens your senses and thought processes are impaired....that can be very dangerous.

Please do not tell people that Narcosis seems to be a bit of an urban legend. It is very real and very dangerous. Your may just be lucky and are not impacted as others are. It also could be that conditions will be different for you the next time you go to 100'+ and you find yourself taking your reg out of your mouth to talk to your buddy (just because the state of your senses tell you it is a good idea) and inhaling water.

Know that it is real and be prepared for it. If it never comes, I will consider you a lucky diver.
 
I know this type of thing affects people differently and you have to be in tuned with what your body or mind is telling you when you are diving, but I do think the whole thing is overblown. Just because a person feels "happy" underwater doesn't mean they are nacred. Maybe they are just having a great time. And if someone finds themselves laughing, maybe they just saw something funny. And if a person does something stupid while diving, could be they were just stupid at that particular moment or just not thinking.

Anyone who does not have a healthy respect for the effects of narcosis and considers the whole thing 'overblown' does not know enough about it. You mention your test conducted at Bonaire - well try doing it in cold water with bad viz at 130'...

Narcosis DOES make people do stupid things when diving. Not every stupid thing done is the result of narcosis of course, but many stupid things can be attributed to it. There is a reason why some people don't dive below 30m without helium...

It just seems to me that people like to say they were "narced" because it either sounds cool to their friends or it is used to excuse their behavior when diving. But you will find out all of this for yourself as you dive more and go deeper. Just don't let the idea of being "narced" keep you from enjoying diving or trying new depths if you want to go deeper. I think you're gonna find the same thing I did.

:confused: What? Most people I know try to downplay how they experience narcosis actually. Also narcosis should be a factor in whether or not you try new depths and it should prevent you from doing so if you are debilitated by it and the OP has a very valid reason for being cautious about diving deeper when they do not know how narcosis will affect them. Personally I would not be worrying about it until 100' or greater, not 60' but concerns about narcosis are very valid.
 
I would say that with this statement, you are correct.



I would say that with this statement you could not be more more incorrect. Please refer to TS&M's post earlier (or do a search on her posts about Narcosis where she tells her story about hallucinations) and decide if you still believe this. Narcosis is not unlike drinking and driving. When it happens your senses and thought processes are impaired....that can be very dangerous.

Please do not tell people that Narcosis seems to be a bit of an urban legend. It is very real and very dangerous. Your may just be lucky and are not impacted as others are. It also could be that conditions will be different for you the next time you go to 100'+ and you find yourself taking your reg out of your mouth to talk to your buddy (just because the state of your senses tell you it is a good idea) and inhaling water.

Know that it is real and be prepared for it. If it never comes, I will consider you a lucky diver.

How can my statement be incorrect? It's just my opinion. I never said that Narcosis wasn't real did I? Did I call it an "Urban Legend"? Those are your words. Not mine. I simply said I have felt no affect from it and basically said don't be afraid of it.

If TS&M has had problems with it, then obviously for her it is very real and I'm sure she is able to mange it quite well. But I'm sure she is the exception and not the rule. I probably know at least 100 to 150 people who dive and not one has ever talked about having hallucinations. So it appears her case is on the extreme side.

So I'll stand by my OPINION and it's fine if you disagree. Just read my post and understand what I said before you decide to tell me what I said.

BDSC
 
.......but I do think the whole thing is overblown. Just because a person feels "happy" underwater doesn't mean they are nacred. Maybe they are just having a great time. And if someone finds themselves laughing, maybe they just saw something funny. And if a person does something stupid while diving, could be they were just stupid at that particular moment or just not thinking. ......

You are correct that you did not say "Urban Legend"...those were my words because your post implies the non-existence. For that I apologize. However this statement form your original post definitely implies that Narcosis does not exist and that for the things that go wrong, diver error is present, not impaired judgement due to narcosis. My point was that Narcosis is very real and implying that it really has no impact at rec depths is not what we, as responsible divers and mentors should be spreading. You did not say it does not exist however if you read your post it is certainly and obvioously implied it. This is where I take exception. You are entitled to your opinion.....everybody is.
 
How can my statement be incorrect? It's just my opinion. I never said that Narcosis wasn't real did I? Did I call it an "Urban Legend"? Those are your words. Not mine. I simply said I have felt no affect from it and basically said don't be afraid of it.

Opinions can be incorrect actually, not saying yours is about your own experiences but you did talk about other people and how you think they talk it up to be cool. You also stated you thought the whole idea of narcosis was 'overblown'. When you started talking about other people's experiences as well as narcosis in general, that is when it stops just being about your own experiences and becomes you trying to apply them to other people.

If TS&M has had problems with it, then obviously for her it is very real and I'm sure she is able to mange it quite well. But I'm sure she is the exception and not the rule. I probably know at least 100 to 150 people who dive and not one has ever talked about having hallucinations. So it appears her case is on the extreme side.

N=150 is not a very large sample when it comes to how narcosis effects people. Hallucinations are one symptom of narcosis too, so just because 150 of your mates have not had hallucinations, does not mean they have never been narced...
 
Anyone who does not have a healthy respect for the effects of narcosis and considers the whole thing 'overblown' does not know enough about it. You mention your test conducted at Bonaire - well try doing it in cold water with bad viz at 130'...

Narcosis DOES make people do stupid things when diving. Not every stupid thing done is the result of narcosis of course, but many stupid things can be attributed to it. There is a reason why some people don't dive below 30m without helium...



:confused: What? Most people I know try to downplay how they experience narcosis actually. Also narcosis should be a factor in whether or not you try new depths and it should prevent you from doing so if you are debilitated by it and the OP has a very valid reason for being cautious about diving deeper when they do not know how narcosis will affect them. Personally I would not be worrying about it until 100' or greater, not 60' but concerns about narcosis are very valid.

Perhaps you could educate me all about Narcosis then since I seem to know little about it. And why would I do a test tying knots in cold water with bad vis when I never dive those conditions?

I guess we know different people then because I don't know anyone who is ashamed or embarrassed by it. I just don't know many divers who are affected by it. And I've heard plenty of people say, "I must have been narced this or I must have been narced that" or "that was the nitrogen talking" when they have been on a shallow reef dive to 40ft. Get real.

Of course it should be considered when trying new depths but how do you know how it's going to affect you until you go to those depths? You gotta go to know. I just don't want the OP to be afraid of it and decide not to go to deeper depths because of what MIGHT happen.

Like I said OP, don't let all the stories about narcosis keep you from becoming a more accomplished diver. And get back with me in a year or two and let me know what you have experienced. Bet you'll find the same thing I did and good luck with your diving.

BDSC
 
Perhaps you could educate me all about Narcosis then since I seem to know little about it. And why would I do a test tying knots in cold water with bad vis when I never dive those conditions?

I guess we know different people then because I don't know anyone who is ashamed or embarrassed by it. I just don't know many divers who are affected by it. And I've heard plenty of people say, "I must have been narced this or I must have been narced that" or "that was the nitrogen talking" when they have been on a shallow reef dive to 40ft. Get real.

Of course it should be considered when trying new depths but how do you know how it's going to affect you until you go to those depths? You gotta go to know. I just don't want the OP to be afraid of it and decide not to go to deeper depths because of what MIGHT happen.

Like I said OP, don't let all the stories about narcosis keep you from becoming a more accomplished diver. And get back with me in a year or two and let me know what you have experienced. Bet you'll find the same thing I did and good luck with your diving.

BDSC

For the most part, I can agree with most of this post. However, this I take exception to.

And why would I do a test tying knots in cold water with bad vis when I never dive those conditions?

I live 40 minutes west of the OP and I know the conditions of this area. If you have never dove in this area, and did not ask him what the conditions were, then perhaps a different approach is required. To tell them that they are unlikely to experience Narcosis when not factoring in their typical diving conditions is never good. I have over 230 cold water dives (36 to about 68-70 here) at depths locally to about 110'. I know these conditions and they can be cold, limited vis and sometimes you can throw in a current. How do you know that you would not experience narcosis here? And how can you be so sure, with your experience, that the OP will not?

This is why I suggest we cater our posts to better educate the people asking the questions. If they ask about Narcosis....we say that it is real, different for all people and that we should continue to advance our diving while watching for the effects etc....to me that would be the best and most responsible approach. Again however, this is just my opinion.
 
You are correct that you did not say "Urban Legend"...those were my words because your post implies the non-existence. For that I apologize. However this statement form your original post definitely implies that Narcosis does not exist and that for the things that go wrong, diver error is present, not impaired judgement due to narcosis. My point was that Narcosis is very real and implying that it really has no impact at rec depths is not what we, as responsible divers and mentors should be spreading. You did not say it does not exist however if you read your post it is certainly and obvioously implied it. This is where I take exception. You are entitled to your opinion.....everybody is.

Again go back and read the post ScubaSteve. Read where I said, "I know this type of thing affects people differently". That IMPLIES that it indeed does exist. Once again you are trying to tell people what I have said when they can read it for themselves.

BDSC
 
Opinions can be incorrect actually, not saying yours is about your own experiences but you did talk about other people and how you think they talk it up to be cool. You also stated you thought the whole idea of narcosis was 'overblown'. When you started talking about other people's experiences as well as narcosis in general, that is when it stops just being about your own experiences and becomes you trying to apply them to other people.



N=150 is not a very large sample when it comes to how narcosis effects people. Hallucinations are one symptom of narcosis too, so just because 150 of your mates have not had hallucinations, does not mean they have never been narced...

Never said that none of my 150 friends had never been narced. I said they had never talked about having hallucinations. Of course maybe they are downplaying that deep dark secret.
 
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