Question about buddy system protocol...

[Bubbletrubble]

I love walls! I usually take the outside. Follow the leader can work, but it rarely does. Side by side is much better in almost every circumstance.

OK, Walter. If we dive a wall together, I've got the inside.

 

[Gregflier]

. Per request of the boat captain, I reboarded to wait and see if my buddy would surface (the plan was to continue the dive if they came up and we both had enough remaining air supply).

Long story short, my buddy did not surface until the end of the dive, and seemed upset with me that the rest of their dive was spent searching underwater for me. I in turn was upset because I didn't know if they were okay or had joined up with the rest of the divers on the boat.

I am pretty new and have a lot to learn about diving, but I noticed many people commented that the buddies behavior showed that he was untrustworthy and at least implied that he potentially endangered the OP

I am sure the official PADI procedure was thought out by people smarter then me, but I don't see how the buddy endangered the OP by looking under water for the rest of the dive.

It seems to me that if the buddy was in trouble under water, surfacing and waiting for everyone to come up would not have helped him. If the plan had to send people down to look IF the buddy didn't show up when everyone else surfaced, that plan could still be implemented after surfacing at the end of the dive.

If I was trapped, entangled, unconscious, in trouble under water, I think I would be best served by my buddy looking for me and not hanging out on the surface hoping I was OK with no expressed plan to look for me underwater.

The only way I see surfacing almost immediately (1 minute) after loosing a buddy actually helping a buddy already in trouble would be if the buddy was drifting away at the surface and needed people looking from the boat. I can see how if both parties are OK that surfacing and rejoining would mean a safer rest of the dive.

I agree that the OP was correct and made the more standardized decision, but I don't think the buddy's decision with the lack of a pre-dive briefing makes him a bad/unsafe buddy.

IMHO a detailed pre dive briefing of buddy procedures is essential to keep everyone on the same page.

Just my 2 newbie cents.

Greg

 

[Diver0001]

Thoughts or feedback on this/suggestions of what I should do? :depressed:

My suggestion is to not worry too much about this particular case but instead learn the lesson that these kinds of things need to be discussed before the dive.

Most students are told to search for one minute and then surface but regardless of how many times you say this and how many times you reinforce it there will always be some jokers who just don't do what they were taught. Your buddy may possibly be one of those which, if you dive with him more often, could surface (pun intended) in other ways too. Communication is the key and if you find in time that he often does not follow protocol you may have to stop diving with him. Time will tell but clear open communication is the first and most important key.

Finally, you probably should have been able to find him. Your instructor probably told you to search for one minute but did he tell you *HOW* to search? Knowing how to search efficiently might have allowed you to find your buddy instead of having to surface.

R..

 

[mrivken]

Your instructor probably told you to search for one minute but did he tell you *HOW* to search? Knowing how to search efficiently might have allowed you to find your buddy instead of having to surface.
R..

I was entangled in thick kelp and lost my buddy. Could you, please, explain how to search efficiently in thick kelp with poor viz.

M

 

[Diver0001]

I was entangled in thick kelp and lost my buddy. Could you, please, explain how to search efficiently in thick kelp with poor viz.

M

I'm not sure where this came from but the OP said he looked at his computer and when he looked up his buddy was gone.

... or are you just trying to play the I-bet-I-can-think-of-an-exception-to-the-rule game with me? This comment reminds me of "Topper" from Dilbert. One guy says "I lost my buddy looking at my computer" and Topper says "That's nothing! My buddy got eaten by a shark while I was entangled in kelp and using my expensive cable lamp to beat back 27 lascivious mermaids who were trying to lick my toes..."

R..

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I was entangled in thick kelp and lost my buddy. Could you, please, explain how to search efficiently in thick kelp with poor viz.

@mrivken: I can see where you're going with this. I dive in these conditions pretty regularly. Buddy separation happens due to the limited vis. With thick kelp and poor vis, the best thing to do is to surface and look for your buddy's bubbles.
If you were entangled in thick kelp and separated from your buddy, I would hope that you'd know enough to "self-rescue." Kelp strands snap quite easily by hand. While you're getting sorted out, your buddy would have conducted a proper search...and if he didn't find you, he would ascend and look for your bubbles.

I think Diver0001 makes a good point, though, regarding the lack of training in basic OW class on how to conduct a search. At the very least, it might be prudent to work through some scenarios in class that divers are bound to encounter in local waters.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I attempted to discuss this with him after the dive, but we were both tired and probably upset with each other...

I can respect that you guys were tired. The best time to discuss a dive is immediately afterwards when the events are still fresh in your mind. This is also when emotions can run the highest. As adults however, the two of you should be able discuss the dive intelligently and analytically. As dive buddies, it is a must that you do so.

That's where it's a bit odd. We have our instructor, and then there is a student instructor (just completed their instructor certification) who teaches our class while the main instructor teaches the basic scuba (both were scheduled for same time, scheduling error). The student instructor just kind of chuckled when this was mentioned (student instructor was one out with us on the dives).

The newly certified Instructor (I wont call him a student if he is actually certified) was wrong in not addressing this issue. To laugh it off means that he did not grasp the potential seriousness of the situation and this is disturbing. As an Instructor he is at the very LEAST required to make sure you guys adhere to NAUI standards regarding buddysmanship and to attempt to correct any deficiencies that occurred. Maybe the new Instructor did not wish to address the issue because that would reflect poorly on his leadership skills since he was with you. What ever the reason, he was wrong and failed to act as an Instructor should regarding the students under his care. I would have serious doubts about using him as an Instructor in the future. I would address this with the "seasoned" Instructor. Not as a snitch, but if the new Instructor is not being attentive or is failing to properly educate his students, this is a deficiency that should be corrected early. Otherwise it will develop into a bad habit with potentially serious consequences.

Our instructor is really busy, and I'm not sure how to even bring this up with him without it becoming an issue, and I don't want to discuss it with him with the student instructor around (think it might get blown off as "oh, they just got separated on the dive").

While I know Instructors get busy, I cannot accept the notion that he was too busy to address ANY concerns that you may have. That concept should NEVER be a part of his educational vocabulary. If he is too busy then you have the wrong Instructor. I would suggest that you talk to him and give him the benefit of the doubt. He may WANT to know if his new Instructor is making mistakes. If he blows you off then seek instruction elsewhere. You can certainly discuss the issue with him in private and ask for his honest opinion. Don't feel that you are caught between the two Instructors. You are not. As a student you have a right and a duty to ask any question you feel is important to your ability to dive safely. Any decent Instructor will be happy to address your concerns. Think of it as helping the next set of dive buddies that get separated due to a lack of planning and a fatality occurs. You are doing more good than harm by addressing this.

Both of us are advanced certified, but are in advanced scuba class, so I'm assuming (I know, dangerous) that we abide by class rules and regs. No one in the class seems to think it was that big a deal (with the following of protocol), and I'm wondering if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill...My head and gut tells me that I'm not. It bothers me to no end that it seems to be just a joke. I'm not looking for someone to get yelled at, I just would like some clarification and understanding that there could have been serious consequences for lack of planning on both our parts and lack of proper response in following protocol.

I applaud you for taking this seriously Alex. As noted earlier, as a NAUI Instructor I will not pass someone who shows poor buddysmanship and poor diving awareness. I try to create scenarios that test that very concept. It is an incredibly important concept. I would also address this with your "seasoned" Instructor. He should know and be aware of his students views about being a good dive buddy. Perhaps this was not stressed enough. Perhaps the students egos are getting ahead of their training. In either event, I would attempt to communicate with him regarding your concerns. I always seek feedback from my students regarding the course. What they liked, didn't like, wanted more of, could use improvement, etc. A quality Instructor would appreciate and respect such feedback and use it to produce more educated and prepared divers. You have the right attitude about this.

You will find as you continue diving that there are just some people that you will not want to dive with. That's alright. You should be comfortable and confident in a divers abilities before you agree to dive with them. You should discuss with them their philosophy on diving (communication, gas planning, air management, gear configuration, etc.). All of these will influence who you will dive with. Be selective and be educated. The life you save my be your own.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I am pretty new and have a lot to learn about diving, but I noticed many people commented that the buddies behavior showed that he was untrustworthy and at least implied that he potentially endangered the OP

I am sure the official PADI procedure was thought out by people smarter then me, but I don't see how the buddy endangered the OP by looking under water for the rest of the dive.

Hello Greg. There are many reasons to not continue to look for someone when you become separated. The first one that comes to mind is that the person looking could have an emergency and have no one to provide assistance. What if they run OOA? What if they drift further from the boat? What if they exceed their NDL in a search for a buddy? In 10 foot visibility, you could swim right by one another and not know it. Many things run through a divers head when he is frantically searching for a lost buddy. Task loading could easily cause you to become lost, disoriented, confused, hyperventilate, over exert yourself, or ignore your NDLs such that you have now endangered yourself. While the OP was not in danger on this dive (he surfaced), he could be on future dives if the two divers are not clear on what they should do if they become separated. I am not implying that the buddy is not trustworthy, just that he did not adhere to the training he was given. That should be addressed by the OP and his Instructor.

While I do not blame the divers directly (the issue of needing to discuss emergency issues like lost divers has been addressed already), I do have concerns about the rest of what Alex discussed, namely the Instructors attitude about the event.

 

[diver 85]

I would just discuss this predive the next time----probably everything will turn out 'OK' then.....con't your diving & dive the way you were taught....

 

[TheScubaBOB]

I am pretty new and have a lot to learn about diving, but I noticed many people commented that the buddies behavior showed that he was untrustworthy and at least implied that he potentially endangered the OP.

I am sure the official PADI procedure was thought out by people smarter then me, but I don't see how the buddy endangered the OP by looking under water for the rest of the dive.

It seems to me that if the buddy was in trouble under water, surfacing and waiting for everyone to come up would not have helped him. If the plan had to send people down to look IF the buddy didn't show up when everyone else surfaced, that plan could still be implemented after surfacing at the end of the dive.

Greg, you actually bring up a good point.

The OP did as he was trained. I wonder why the boat crew didn't go into action to confirm that the Missing Buddy {who searched underwater} wasn't in fact in trouble down there.

The point of surfacing after 1 minute is that you can regroup with your buddy easier at the surface.

If I got seperated from my buddy and he failed to surface I would signal that I had a missing diver and try to get a search going for him.