Quarry Diving: 500 Dives in a Quarry - Are You SERIOUS???

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Hi Steve and Mike:

Thanks for the replies. Steve, you are spot on with what I'm getting at. I'd like to think that "Open Water" means you can at least dive from a boat, make a beach or shore entry, and understand the basics of most ocean environments. This is why I posted the link to BSAC because I think their approach is more realistic. The ironic thing is that most instructors and shops sell this stuff in the form of "specialty classes." If you look at the instructional course catalog these days, there seems to be a specialty for just about anything. While that's OK, it would seem to me that students get more "value" out of receiving a wider range of instruction at two levels - Open Water and Advanced. The problem is that if you do both those classes in a quarry - like many shops and instructors do on the east coast - where is the learning? OK, so I can navigate the hell out of my dive around a big hole filled with rock. That's cool, but it doesn't really translate to the ocean. Vladimir mentioned that the Caribbean doesn't prepare you for Hatteras and I'd probably agree, but I've had reef divers with 20 dives on boats under their belts that do MUCH better than divers who only dive quarries.

For example, I was diving Olympus one day in more "sporty" conditions when one group started making common mistakes. First, none of them took any seasickness meds before diving. Most of them were sick. Then, several started making simple mistakes before getting in, including forgetting to turn on their gas, hooking up their BCD inflators or having loose fins. None of these would be problematic in a quarry doing a walk-in entry, but any of them could be fatal in 2 to 4 FT seas off North Carolina. Fortunately, the boat crew caught each of them (Olympus is top notch) and corrected the problems before they compounded. Now some would say it's more likely a failure of instruction, but I'd disagree. I've seen VERY good instructors at quarries that teach and drill stuff right, so I'll give the instructor or shop the benefit of the doubt. Instead, I'd say it's "environmental shock." They'd never encountered what they were experiencing because they had NEVER tasted salt before! The dive leader, a PADI Divemaster, when asked later by George where they wanted to make the second dive said he wanted to "head back in." Then he said the words you should NEVER even THINK about saying on a North Carolina dive boat - I don't care how BAD you have it. Looking right at George Purifoy - the guy who found the U-352 - he said "we're just quarry divers." 4 hours later we pulled into the dock.

Doc Mike, what an OUTSTANDING page you linked. I agree completely with the approach you guys have outlined and it's very similar to the BSAC diver development style used in the UK. However, BSAC has "Ocean Diver" on their cert cards for a reason and its because they require ocean dives. That could be problematic in some areas of this country - obviously - which is why I suggested the difference. I don't know. It seems specialty classes are the bigger market here and it's what Americans are used to. Just stand in line at McDonalds these days and listen to how people order a hamburger, LOL. I'd hate to think "ocean diving" is a specialty, but that sure seems where it's going.

I know some people reading my posts might think I'm busting on quarry divers and quarry diving. Really, I'm not. If it's all you have, want or need, by all means, more power to you. I respect that.

BUT, I wish you could see what I've seen. Molasses Reef in Key Largo on a dark night bathed in the blue light of photogenic plankton so bright that you didn't even need a dive light. Thousands of horseshoe crabs migrating across the sandy bottom of the entrance to the Chesapeake Bay like soldiers marching into battle. The look on my 13 year old niece's face as we lay motionless near the stern of the Dixie Arrow off Hatteras after other divers had left the wreck and more than 20 sand tiger sharks moved in right next to us, some more than 10 FT long, floating effortlessly only inches away. The shear size of the WWII tanker E.M. Clark lying on its side and towering more than 6 stories above me in almost unlimited visibility as we casually swam down the length of her hull. The U.S.S. Tarpon bathed in blue topaz water so beautiful that it sparkled like jewelry when baitfish caught the beams of sunlight. A pod of spotted dolphin smiling as they swam by and made my acquaintance on a decompression stop.

So, as our oceans become more polluted, the heat kills our fish, invasive species change the character of regions, dive boats go out of business because no one comes and the pace of this change accelerates, "quarry diving" will undoubtedly become more popular.

I just wish most of you reading this could understand that there's more out there than a $36 admission fee, practicing skills, signing up for your 10th specialty class and seeing the latest sunken bus.

The rest of us NEED you...

Thanks for reading.

Andy
 
Maybe I'm missing something too. I have about 7 or 8 quarry dives, now, roughly half of my total dives. I don't find it particularly cheap at $18-$20 per day entrance fee for a couple of freeze your keester off fresh water dives in poor(ish) viz. I dive it because it's a lot closer to my house than the salt water options. I'm hoping to get on a volunteer research boat for some occasional dives starting this summer, though, and that will probably end my quarry career except for the occasional dip for gear checkout or something.
 
The dive leader, a PADI Divemaster, when asked later by George where they wanted to make the second dive said he wanted to "head back in." Then he said the words you should NEVER even THINK about saying on a North Carolina dive boat - I don't care how BAD you have it. Looking right at George Purifoy - the guy who found the U-352 - he said "we're just quarry divers."
:rofl3:

I wish you could see what I've seen. Molasses Reef in Key Largo on a dark night bathed in the blue light of photogenic plankton so bright that you didn't even need a dive light. Thousands of horseshoe crabs migrating across the sandy bottom of the entrance to the Chesapeake Bay like soldiers marching into battle. The look on my 13 year old niece's face as we lay motionless near the stern of the Dixie Arrow off Hatteras after other divers had left the wreck and more than 20 sand tiger sharks moved in right next to us, some more than 10 FT long, floating effortlessly only inches away. The shear size of the WWII tanker E.M. Clark lying on its side and towering more than 6 stories above me in almost unlimited visibility as we casually swam down the length of her hull. The U.S.S. Tarpon bathed in blue topaz water so beautiful that it sparkled like jewelry when baitfish caught the beams of sunlight. A pod of spotted dolphin smiling as they swam by and made my acquaintance on a decompression stop.

So, as our oceans become more polluted, the heat kills our fish, invasive species change the character of regions, dive boats go out of business because no one comes and the pace of this change accelerates, "quarry diving" will undoubtedly become more popular.

I just wish most of you reading this could understand that there's more out there than a $36 admission fee, practicing skills, signing up for your 10th specialty class and seeing the latest sunken bus.

The rest of us NEED you...

Thanks for reading.

Andy
Nicely written, Drew. If I had to choose, I'd rather save for one ocean trip than make dozens of quarry dives, but I can see how others feel differently. I dive for that transcendent experience that comes rarely in the ocean, and never in a quarry.
 
Drew, Very well written! I agree with you on several points. I believe that many of your points explain Bobby's policy that anyone signing up to go offshore with Olympus must now have previous Ocean dives. I have dove with them for 10 + years and taken untold number of people down to dive with them. As much prep as I have done, nothing truly equals the reality of jumping off a boat with no sight of land in 2-4 ft. seas. Not to mention getting back aboard. When I teach OW and AOW I always differentiate between diving in the Caribbean vs. Diving the Atlantic. Saying that one is nothing like the other. I talk about entrances and exits. Such as, Air in BC in the Caribbean; and no air in BC in the Atlantic. I try to give my students a sense of the reality of what is out there. But with that said, Our Quarry divers who do OW and Advanced do experience a very controlled experience. BUT, they also experience, 48 degree water with 5 ft vis on their deep dive to 80'. Not 50- 80 ft vis in 70+ water, so I am not sure which is a better stress test for the deep dive. Getting on and off a boat and diving the Indra in the Atlantic or going in our "Hole" at Bluestone!
Again, I agree that nothing prepares you for diving in the Atlantic except diving in the Atlantic, But we have to start them somewhere. Thanks again Drew, well put!
 
I dive for that transcendent experience that comes rarely in the ocean, and never in a quarry.
And I dive because every minute spent breathing compressed "air" while suspended mid water column is heaven to me. I miss no diving opportunity - quarry, lake, river or ocean. Hell, I've never even turned down a pool dive.
 
Yeah, diving is diving. And fresh water locales have suited me for taking courses and working on skills. I've dived in 2 springs in N. FL., a lake in CT., and a NJ river (though it was salt water). I could've taken OW well before '06, but lived in Northern Manitoba with it's cold dark lakes. No interest in that. Guess I'm just a salt water guy. Plus, no fresh water shells to speak of worth collecting. Now I know there are many interesting fresh water sites, with maybe the Great Lakes wrecks leading the way. But from what I read about quarries, I can't understand why (at least after one dive there), besides tuning up skills, one would prefer this to watching Dallas reruns. I am even more interested in diving the crummiest of our NS Eastern Shore dives.
 
Only real problem I have with this statement, is if you are saving to only do ocean diving, how good would your basic skills still be if you only could go diving once a year or whatever time period that it took you to save up for an ocean dive?

And again, to drewski, if someone is certified in the nice warm waters where you dont ever 'need' a wetsuit, even though it's 'open water' and off a boat, should they be 'allowed' to go dive in a 50 degree quarry? Are they going to be set up for that? All that extra neoprene, hood, thick gloves etc etc. You just IMO seem to be saying that basic open water should be able to dive off a boat, and I'm not really disagreeing with that, but you dont say on the other side that folks should also have to dive into cold water to be certified?
Unless I missed it. Basically what's good for the goose in good for the gander :)

:rofl3:

Nicely written, Drew. If I had to choose, I'd rather save for one ocean trip than make dozens of quarry dives, but I can see how others feel differently. I dive for that transcendent experience that comes rarely in the ocean, and never in a quarry.
 
(Olympus is top notch)

Yup, absolutely..! We had an amazing week with them earlier this year... Mike Gerken and the rest of the Olympus crew really know how to run a great operation.


Doc Mike, what an OUTSTANDING page you linked. I agree completely with the approach you guys have outlined and it's very similar to the BSAC diver development style used in the UK.

Glad that you like it..! We have a lot of good people (instructors and other volunteers) doing hard work to bring our Caribbean divers safely up to North Atlantic conditions.. :)

I know some people reading my posts might think I'm busting on quarry divers and quarry diving. Really, I'm not. ...

So, as our oceans become more polluted, the heat kills our fish, invasive species change the character of regions, dive boats go out of business because no one comes and the pace of this change accelerates, "quarry diving" will undoubtedly become more popular.

Right, I certainly understand where you are coming from. I take every opportunity to preach the gospel of our precious oceans to divers and non-divers alike. In New York City, it's really easy to forget that we sit right on an amazing and healthy undersea environment. It's not quite as accessible as a Bonaire reef, but it's there...

So while the quarries have their place in the world of scuba, I try to get out into the ocean whenever I can as well...

Safe diving!
 
"Open Water" Certified is not specific to meaning the ocean off of a boat. That is probably why there are so many specialties such as "boat diver", "deep diver", etc. Not sure how someone could get certified for boat diving in a quarry anyway. I think in order for someone to assume that open water certified should automatically mean ocean, off a boat would be asking a little bit too much. Divers can get certified in all sorts of environments which may or may not prepare them for diving in other locations. This is probably why many dive boat operators (not all) require a certain level of certification and experience. Try diving off a boat on the coast of NJ with a brand new open water cert card. It won't happen unless you are with your instructor.

One could be certified as open water in Key West after doing dives on a 25' reef in calm waters but not be anywhere ready for a deep dive in choppy waters, heavier seas. They were certified in the ocean, off a boat but are probably not as comfortable as someone who certified in a quarry with water temp of 45F wearing a 7mm suit & hood with 5' of visibility. I have been on dive boats that apologized for the very poor visibility conditions of the dive site of only 25'. Wow, you kidding me? That is great vis to a quarry, river or lake diver in the northeast.

In my opinion, I don't think that anyone who is fresh off of a open water cert dive is ready for diving off a boat on a deeper recreational wreck in moderate seas. You can take all the freshly certified divers on boats to a reef in Cayman in 25' of water and they will do fine but a freshly certified diver, NO MATTER where they were initially certified should have more training before they are put on a boat in the ocean or large lake on a dive that involves current, deeper depth or poor visibility. When you really think about it, the minimum certification requirements really don't prepare you for much and it takes practice to get yourself comfortable in different conditions.

So back to the OP's topic. 500 dives in a deep, cold, poor visibility quarry with a drysuit gives you plenty of skills. I will take that instructor over the one who has 1,000 dives in shallow reefs with great vis. We all need to be well rounded in whatever we choose to do. Any dives other than what we are use to will simply take some additional training. I bet the Caribbean warm water only veteran with 1,000 dives will have a hard time in a dry suit with a hood, dry-gloves and cold water equipment diving in a 100' quarry with 6' of visibility and 36F water temp.
 
I would love to do all my diving in warm tropical waters but time and money preclude that. I was certified in the lovely water of Bonaire, and back in the northeast, the quarry showed me how much I have to learn. I have no particular interest in northeast ocean diving at this point in my diving experience, but going to the quarry allows me practice skills, gets me that zen feeling of floating, watching the fish go by, and above all, gets me time in the water (and away from work). If I were to do any northeast coast diving, it would be clear that I would need extra training to do that, given my current experience and skills.
 
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