Quarry Diving: 500 Dives in a Quarry - Are You SERIOUS???
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OP
WOW, this thread generated some GREAT discussion, so first, thanks to all of you for the thoughtful replies.
OK, when I posted this, I was thinking about folks who live on the east coast, generally within about 100 miles of the ocean. Needless to say, if you live in Oklahoma, ocean diving is a major investment for you. Obviously, it's more than just a weekend jaunt and that wasn't what I was thinking of. By all means, if I lived in the central United States, I'd dive quarries all the time too.
Second, please don't think that I'm saying quarry diving is second rate. By no means am I suggesting that. My "local" quarry - Lake Rawlings - is actually a pretty cool place. Likewise for Dutch Springs and other "scuba parks." The operators at these locations have developed attractions, both underwater and above water, geared toward the entire family. I'm really surprised that one of them hasn't incorporated a KOA campground into their properties yet, blending the best of below and above. Ginnie Springs in Florida is close to this model, but not quite.
OK, from the comments:
Yep, I tried diving Hatteras on Saturday and Sunday after I posted this thread and as one poster noted, I was blown out. The hot air over the east coast caused strong wind blowing south to north and that's all it takes for almost all of North Carolina. Everyone from Wilmington north sat on the beach. Instead, I re-routed back to Virginia Beach, got a seat on a private boat, and was diving 40 miles offshore Sunday morning. The Hatteras dives would have cost me $170 each (we were going to the E. M. Clark, a rather long trip), the Virginia Beach dive cost me $60 in shared fuel money.
OK, no argument that ocean diving is harder for scheduling students, dives, etc., but SORRY, that don't cut it. When you certify someone "Open Water" it means that you, as an instructor, are saying the student is capable of diving in ANY open water environment without "special" rules (i.e., ice, cave, deep, etc.). I've seen too many newly "certified" divers come to boats I run on only to have bad experiences. They just aren't prepared. Unfortunately, almost to a diver, they tell me they took both Open Water and Advanced from the same shop or instructor and did all their dives in quarries. They also tell me that the shop or instructor convinced them they were "prepared" for the ocean, but that they should "start slow and go easy" with ocean dives. Right.
When I teach diving, I separate "training" and "certification" dives. Training dives are for developing skills. Confined water settings - like quarries - are perfect for this. For my Advanced course, students do at least two (2) days of confined water skill dives for at least six (6) dives. Some need more. When they are ready, they move to ocean certification dives. With me, that's two (2) days of boat diving with four (4) dives. We do skill development in the quarry. We use it in the ocean. Google BSAC (or click here and here) to see how they do it if you'd like some comparison. Personally, I'd separate "Open Water" and "Advanced" certifications into two groups - "confined" and "ocean." That way, everyone could be accommodated.
Obviously, cost is a big factor in diving. But, here's the thing. People put more money into gear than the dives they need it for. What's the point of a high end, two gas, decompression capable Nitrox computer if all your dives are 60 FT or less? I understand the "cool" factor - I've been marketed too - but when the cost of my equipment exceeds my ability to use it regularly - as it was intended - then it's really not about diving. It's about keeping up with the Joneses. More money than sense.
That said, ocean diving can be affordable if you know how to manage it. Set a season diving budget. Include ocean and quarry dives. Consider beach and shore dives as well. Lots of rivers have great artifact sites if you ask local dive shops. If you decide to go boat diving, use social networks like this one. Check out dive operators before booking. KNOW their cancellation, bad weather and refund policies. Many dive operators on the east coast (not Florida) will let you stay on the boat the night before the dive if you ask. Shops and boats in North Carolina have "diver hostels" where you get a dormitory style bed and bathroom facility for about $30 a night. I've met some of the nicest people from all over the world staying with Olympus in Morehead City. Specialized dive travel operators like singledivers.com put this all together in short weekend packages and even pair you with a buddy after you complete an extensive survey about likes and dislikes, experience, etc. Kamala, aka "Wreck Wench," even analyzes successful weather history for the dive location and will only book trips when the chance of getting blown out is less. So maybe you only get one or two weekends of ocean diving in a season, and the rest confined water. OK, that's good for me!
To REALLY dive cheap, you can unlock the VAST potential of Scuba Board and contact people in the regional forums for local diving. The guy I dived with last Sunday has his own boat. He looks for people to go diving with him and share fuel expenses. Sure, it can be an adventure, but hey - it's WRECK diving, LOL. I talk with people on Scuba Board from all parts of the country, and even Europe, all of the time. Some end up staying at my house when we dive a weekend offshore. I usually spend about 20 minutes reading their posting history to get a good idea about who they are and another 10 minutes on the phone with them. So far, I've never been disappointed. In fact, all of the guys (and ladies) I dive with regularly now, I've met on Scuba Board. Other social networking sites for diving have similar features as well.
In closing this post, please let me say this. I've been diving the Atlantic for about 30 years. When I started, our area had several dive boats, with lots of choices, most of which that were filled with excited divers every weekend. Sure, when I was young I couldn't afford going every weekend. Many of my dives were wrecks on North Carolina beaches that most people don't even know exist anymore. For example, LST-471 is about 500 yards north of Rodanthe Fishing Pier and 100 yards out. Any of you that dive North Carolina beaches ever dive it? Probably not. I've watched as the local dive shops shifted from boats to quarries and started to care more about numbers than actually diving. Meanwhile, areas in Florida with large diving and fishing communities started receiving Federal funding for artificial shipwrecks that improved both sports. With few exceptions, this funding passed the east coast by after the 1970s. Now, we are lucky to even be considered for such, the new ship (USS Radford) being put down off Maryland, the obvious exception. Meanwhile, quarries are chock full of divers every weekend while the ocean is forgotten.
A famous scientist (and I forget who) was once asked if he thought life existed elsewhere in the universe. Smiling at the reporter he replied, "well, it's a terrible waste of space if it doesn't."
Do yourself a favor. Go diving in the ocean.
Thanks for reading....
OK, when I posted this, I was thinking about folks who live on the east coast, generally within about 100 miles of the ocean. Needless to say, if you live in Oklahoma, ocean diving is a major investment for you. Obviously, it's more than just a weekend jaunt and that wasn't what I was thinking of. By all means, if I lived in the central United States, I'd dive quarries all the time too.
Second, please don't think that I'm saying quarry diving is second rate. By no means am I suggesting that. My "local" quarry - Lake Rawlings - is actually a pretty cool place. Likewise for Dutch Springs and other "scuba parks." The operators at these locations have developed attractions, both underwater and above water, geared toward the entire family. I'm really surprised that one of them hasn't incorporated a KOA campground into their properties yet, blending the best of below and above. Ginnie Springs in Florida is close to this model, but not quite.
OK, from the comments:
Yep, I tried diving Hatteras on Saturday and Sunday after I posted this thread and as one poster noted, I was blown out. The hot air over the east coast caused strong wind blowing south to north and that's all it takes for almost all of North Carolina. Everyone from Wilmington north sat on the beach. Instead, I re-routed back to Virginia Beach, got a seat on a private boat, and was diving 40 miles offshore Sunday morning. The Hatteras dives would have cost me $170 each (we were going to the E. M. Clark, a rather long trip), the Virginia Beach dive cost me $60 in shared fuel money.
OK, no argument that ocean diving is harder for scheduling students, dives, etc., but SORRY, that don't cut it. When you certify someone "Open Water" it means that you, as an instructor, are saying the student is capable of diving in ANY open water environment without "special" rules (i.e., ice, cave, deep, etc.). I've seen too many newly "certified" divers come to boats I run on only to have bad experiences. They just aren't prepared. Unfortunately, almost to a diver, they tell me they took both Open Water and Advanced from the same shop or instructor and did all their dives in quarries. They also tell me that the shop or instructor convinced them they were "prepared" for the ocean, but that they should "start slow and go easy" with ocean dives. Right.
When I teach diving, I separate "training" and "certification" dives. Training dives are for developing skills. Confined water settings - like quarries - are perfect for this. For my Advanced course, students do at least two (2) days of confined water skill dives for at least six (6) dives. Some need more. When they are ready, they move to ocean certification dives. With me, that's two (2) days of boat diving with four (4) dives. We do skill development in the quarry. We use it in the ocean. Google BSAC (or click here and here) to see how they do it if you'd like some comparison. Personally, I'd separate "Open Water" and "Advanced" certifications into two groups - "confined" and "ocean." That way, everyone could be accommodated.
Obviously, cost is a big factor in diving. But, here's the thing. People put more money into gear than the dives they need it for. What's the point of a high end, two gas, decompression capable Nitrox computer if all your dives are 60 FT or less? I understand the "cool" factor - I've been marketed too - but when the cost of my equipment exceeds my ability to use it regularly - as it was intended - then it's really not about diving. It's about keeping up with the Joneses. More money than sense.
That said, ocean diving can be affordable if you know how to manage it. Set a season diving budget. Include ocean and quarry dives. Consider beach and shore dives as well. Lots of rivers have great artifact sites if you ask local dive shops. If you decide to go boat diving, use social networks like this one. Check out dive operators before booking. KNOW their cancellation, bad weather and refund policies. Many dive operators on the east coast (not Florida) will let you stay on the boat the night before the dive if you ask. Shops and boats in North Carolina have "diver hostels" where you get a dormitory style bed and bathroom facility for about $30 a night. I've met some of the nicest people from all over the world staying with Olympus in Morehead City. Specialized dive travel operators like singledivers.com put this all together in short weekend packages and even pair you with a buddy after you complete an extensive survey about likes and dislikes, experience, etc. Kamala, aka "Wreck Wench," even analyzes successful weather history for the dive location and will only book trips when the chance of getting blown out is less. So maybe you only get one or two weekends of ocean diving in a season, and the rest confined water. OK, that's good for me!
To REALLY dive cheap, you can unlock the VAST potential of Scuba Board and contact people in the regional forums for local diving. The guy I dived with last Sunday has his own boat. He looks for people to go diving with him and share fuel expenses. Sure, it can be an adventure, but hey - it's WRECK diving, LOL. I talk with people on Scuba Board from all parts of the country, and even Europe, all of the time. Some end up staying at my house when we dive a weekend offshore. I usually spend about 20 minutes reading their posting history to get a good idea about who they are and another 10 minutes on the phone with them. So far, I've never been disappointed. In fact, all of the guys (and ladies) I dive with regularly now, I've met on Scuba Board. Other social networking sites for diving have similar features as well.
In closing this post, please let me say this. I've been diving the Atlantic for about 30 years. When I started, our area had several dive boats, with lots of choices, most of which that were filled with excited divers every weekend. Sure, when I was young I couldn't afford going every weekend. Many of my dives were wrecks on North Carolina beaches that most people don't even know exist anymore. For example, LST-471 is about 500 yards north of Rodanthe Fishing Pier and 100 yards out. Any of you that dive North Carolina beaches ever dive it? Probably not. I've watched as the local dive shops shifted from boats to quarries and started to care more about numbers than actually diving. Meanwhile, areas in Florida with large diving and fishing communities started receiving Federal funding for artificial shipwrecks that improved both sports. With few exceptions, this funding passed the east coast by after the 1970s. Now, we are lucky to even be considered for such, the new ship (USS Radford) being put down off Maryland, the obvious exception. Meanwhile, quarries are chock full of divers every weekend while the ocean is forgotten.
A famous scientist (and I forget who) was once asked if he thought life existed elsewhere in the universe. Smiling at the reporter he replied, "well, it's a terrible waste of space if it doesn't."
Do yourself a favor. Go diving in the ocean.
Thanks for reading....
OP
Well, that's not really "east coast" to me, it's Florida. So it don't count.
After all, caves are just quarries with roofs to wreck divers....
BTW, I became a cave diver in 1985 before ya'll start and I'm just joking.
OP
Sure, no problem. Click on this link:
Under Pressure May 21, 2011
Note the young man in the upper left picture next to the 12 LB lobster. The others are his dad and brother.
The Under Pressure still has seats available throughout the summer if you are interested. You can stay on the boat for free, so no hotel. If you are coming from a ways away, he will talk to you on Friday and advise weather for cancellation. If the boat don't leave the dock, you don't pay.
OP
BTW, if ya'll like a little more excitement, here's some from the Ocean Explorer operating out of Virginia Beach:
[vimeo]26359761[/vimeo]
[vimeo]26359761[/vimeo]
vladimir
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Is this true? I thought new divers were "certified to dive in the conditions they were trained in." Somebody fresh off their certification in Bonaire would be woefully unprepared for a surf entry in Southern California, for example--or is surf a "special rule"? Either way, that same Bonaire-certified diver is not going to fare much better than a quarry diver on a boat dive off Hatteras, is he?
csmarsh188
Registered
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
I agree and was going to make the same point but it is possible that Drewski is making the point that the diver, once certified can do whatever they decide irrespective of training because the Scuba police typically are on SB posting in Spare Air threads
. One can only hope that through the training, the instructor has produced and intelligent and thinking diver that is capable of knowing when to dive and when not to.
Yup, good post, Drewski, and I agree with a lot of it, but not this part. I think that a few other people have made similar comments, but unless we start breaking down "open water certification" into lots of small categories, you have to trust people's judgement about specific conditions.
The way that this comment was written, it implies that people who certify and dive frequently in the Caribbean are not really certified because they aren't yet capable of diving a New Jersey wreck in 4 foot seas in a dry suit with a pony bottle.
A better approach to such divers who want to extend their range is to help them understand that even though they are technically certified to do a certain dive (and that statement alone is worth a comment thread), that extra effort and training may be needed. My dive club does this with our "introduction to northeast diving" program which was developed for such divers.
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