Qualifications of a DM

[Wibble]

That's just not true. Remember I was a BSAC Dive Leader before I went back to PADI and became a DM then Instructor

DL & DM are very complimentary courses and they both teach things which are specific to their needs. DL Running a club boat, making sure you have someone to tow, boat handle getting petrol money out of the deep pockets or some of the members and cajoling them to help wash the boat etc post dive

DM obv doesn't have that, but it does have the teaching element, which before I took the course I was scathing about but realised how much it improved my interaction skills with other divers and ability to mentor more effectively

There's also a massive difference between leading club divers, whose skills and foibles you know very well, and leading complete strangers who are complete unknowns

DM's have a similar requirement for theoretical knowledge which is examined - and is more in depth from what they've learnt (or forgotten as a rec diver) Thankfully though they don't need to learn BSAC 88 tables

Club diving for all its strengths also breeds a lot of poor diving and training just because its a closed group practicing self affirmation.

As always the skills of the student at the end of the course is highly dependant upon the quality of instruction , and unfortunately too many people want to hold a DM cert without putting in the effort. Something that a grumpy club DO would never allow

Was referring to the term "dive leader" meaning someone who leads dives with novices, not Dive Leader as in the BSAC sense (organising dive trips, etc.)

In your case, you've obviously got more than just plain old DiveMaster skills, which is a great thing. The challenge with the DiveMaster course is you take raw novices with no diving experience and teach them within the microcosm of the Local Dive Shop -- entry requirements: Rescue Diver with 40 dives. In other words no real world experience nor demonstrable skill quality.

It would be great if the entry qualifications were far higher, but that wouldn't fit one of the core objectives of DM training: more assistants in the shop.

 

[Wibble]

Agree; in a previous post in this thread, I mentioned the GUE standards for a rec pass as a minimum I would expect from a DM. I wonder:
- is the rec-pass level sufficient, or a tec-pass level should be expected?
- the GUE standards are the only ones I am familiar with: maybe there is a better way to evaluate the skills of a DM? Which criteria do you use? (in your example you just mention buoyancy and being able to do skills on the fly, but what about trim? propulsion?)

For someone to be called a "master" they need to demonstrate being a "master"; core skills should be exemplary and the standard entry-level requirement. Alas they're not because, as will be argued by others, recreational diving doesn't need skills to that level even if it's self-evident that excellent skills makes diving far easier and far more safe.

 

[ginti]

For someone to be called a "master" they need to demonstrate being a "master"; core skills should be exemplary and the standard entry-level requirement. Alas they're not because, as will be argued by others, recreational diving doesn't need skills to that level even if it's self-evident that excellent skills makes diving far easier and far more safe.

Thanks for your perspective. However, I do not care about the word "master" - I am interested in diving centres' needs here

 

[Wibble]

Thanks for your perspective. However, I do not care about the word "master" - I am interested in diving centres' needs here

It would be so much better for novices to see excellence in action. Give them something to aim for; maybe even open up skills workshops as a paid-for option.

 

[scubaozy]

I think we should be discussing the motivation behind becoming DM. Why can't people be happily diving as rescue divers until there is actual need to become a professional? Folks are too crazy about ranking and collecting cards. I blame this to testosterone triggering status seeking behavior. This behavior is masked by "I want to get better at it and improve" and thus made socially acceptable. Fact is, if you want to be pro, you have to be one. Working in a dive center diving everyday for 3 months will give you enough experience as a DM.
As the song says, "Can't buy me love"

 

[ginti]

I think we should be discussing the motivation behind becoming DM. Why can't people be happily diving as rescue divers until there is actual need to become a professional? Folks are too crazy about ranking and collecting cards. I blame this to testosterone triggering status seeking behavior. This behavior is masked by "I want to get better at it and improve" and thus made socially acceptable. Fact is, if you want to be pro, you have to be one. Working in a dive center diving everyday for 3 months will give you enough experience as a DM.
As the song says, "Can't buy me love"

I am thinking now about becoming a pro. However, I am not interested in guiding; I am just interested in teaching, in confined water. But I first need a DM card with most agencies (not with my favourite one, but being a pro for that three-letter agency here in France is very complicated).

I wouldn't be surprised if most people actually want to get the DM card for this reason...

 

[Wibble]

I am thinking now about becoming a pro. However, I am not interested in guiding; I am just interested in teaching, in confined water. But I first need a DM card with most agencies (not with my favourite one, but being a pro for that three-letter agency here in France is very complicated).

I wouldn't be surprised if most people actually want to get the DM card for this reason...

The first step on the rung of teaching has to be leading. As in leading a bunch of novices and being able to understand their needs and challenges.

One would think that the DiveMaster (even if it's the wrong title) would include dive leading as it's main focus. Thus would be the first step on the instruction ladder.

 

[ginti]

The first step on the rung of teaching has to be leading. As in leading a bunch of novices and being able to understand their needs and challenges.

One would think that the DiveMaster (even if it's the wrong title) would include dive leading as it's main focus. Thus would be the first step on the instruction ladder.

Who said it?

Teaching in a pool is way safer than conducting potentially crazy people in open water dives. Also, a number of agencies allow teaching without being a DM.

In the French agency, for instance, one can be a sort of assistant instructor in the pool without being a DM. With GUE as well, you do not need to be a DM before becoming an instructor; however, the skills and knowledge required to become a GUE instructor and a GUE dive leader are the same, and I also think that a GUE instructor can act as a DM. By the way, I already satisfy these requirements. But I just do not want to lead newbies out there, it is not in my interests, I want to help them in confined water/pools, that's it.

 

[Edward3c]

I am thinking now about becoming a pro. However, I am not interested in guiding; I am just interested in teaching, in confined water. But I first need a DM card with most agencies (not with my favourite one, but being a pro for that three-letter agency here in France is very complicated).

I wouldn't be surprised if most people actually want to get the DM card for this reason...

It doesn't matter if you do or don’t do DM (in whatever flavour) when you become an instructor you will be, on occasions, just a guide; that’s what the leader of a buddy pair often is.

 

[ginti]

It doesn't matter if you do or don’t do DM (in whatever flavour) when you become an instructor you will be, on occasions, just a guide; that’s what the leader of a buddy pair often is.

I have already been the leader. You don't need to be an instructor/DM for that. You just need to be the most experienced guy.

But I don't want to lead professionally.