Pushed Forward - Skill or Equipment?

[RainPilot]

With regard to advice on backplate vs back inflate vs jacket.

In my experience, most people give advice on what they are knowledgeable about or comfortable in. Someone with 1000 dives in a jacket and two dives in a back inflate is unlikely to recommend a back system, especially if the few dives they had on it were without the benefit of some tips and tricks. This applies in the reverse as well.

Actually I suspect it’s at the root of many of the equipment arguments on SB.

Those divers who have a LOT of experience on both the options tend to end up recommending either, based on what you need.

I teach in BP/W where I can, but if a student is going to be renting gear for a long time, I’m doing them a disservice if I don’t teach jacket because that’s what they are getting usually.

I personally don’t have much issue diving either but given a choice it will always be a back system, because I find it works for my diving requirements better than other systems. It does require a little technique to stay vertical at the surface but after a couple of dives you won’t notice it any more.

As for jacket being better for adding a lot of weight to for drysuit diving, I have found that a thicker steel plate serves me well in most cases. Some cheap weight pockets that thread onto shoulder straps give me trim weight that I can ditch if needed which I find tricky with tank weights.

Moral of the story is every config has an area where it shines, some where it’s just ok, and most of the time a little practice and questioning will easily get you over the system-unique issues.

 

[tdallen]

Trying not to be wolf-like How much of your dive are you planning to spend on the surface vs under water?

I know you directed your question @60plus but I'll give my view. In the type of boat based, guided vacation diving that I do spending some time on the surface common enough that I want it to work reasonably well. For instance, even with a negative entry most DMs will want you to return to the surface for a diver Ok check. Many times there's a < 50ft hard bottom below the dive boat for the dive to assemble, but not always - in which case we assemble on the surface. And at the end of the dive some operations will want people to come up together or recover you from a drag line. Then there's air consumption - while I'd like to just do a negative entry and stay down until the ladder is clear that requires more air than the other guy. All told, while I want to be optimized for diving, I also want the option to float comfortably at the surface with my head above water with minimal effort.

 

[tdallen]

@tdallen , trying to get my head around your situation...we're about the same height & weight. Maybe you have a unique body type. Everybody is a bit different. I have dived a Stiletto as well as other back inflate rigs (and jacket BCs which dive just fine). For me, there is a wide range of inflation between having your head sink and being pushed over on your face. All my weight is in pockets on my waist (currently 6 to 8 #s for warm water depending on exposure protection; none on cam bands) and I have a crotch strap. I can float low or med high at the surface, either is fine for up to 3/4 ft. chop (too much more than that and I'll pick another day ). If I really want up out of the water (catch some rays while waiting to be picked up ), I'll inflate my wing and lay back like an easy chair using an occasional fin kick to keep me prone. It's kind of a knack maybe not immediately obvious, but easily learned and well worth it for the benefits underwater (and since you already have one). YMMV, IMHO. Good luck .

@AdivingBel Interesting. My legs are lean and heavy, they tend to sink (if only my gut was as lean as my legs are ). I was in a 3mm shorty and when I was on my back my legs would sink unless I was finning constantly. My only other experience with a back inflate BC was a rental Scuba Pro Knighthawk and a full 7mm wetsuit - I was able to float on my back much more effectively in that setup. I wasn't using a crotch strap - that's a recurring theme on something to try.

 

[Chavodel8en]

The bloke at my dive shop who is a very experienced diver and instructor on the North sea coast of UK (England Europe) which is always choppy and rough said I should not consider a back inflate when I asked about a Scubapro litehawk mainly because of the tipping forward tendency when well inflated. He said jacket type BCds vary in the proportion of air between the side and back pockets, most jacket bcds if slightly inflated for neutral buoyancy on a diver with correct minimal weighting will not be far off a back inflate performance under water, and much more stable when fully inflated at the surface.

You will find a lot of folks on SB have a negative attitude towards jacket BCs. I started diving in a jacket BC, and I agree with the bolded statement above. IMO, you can achieve perfect trim in any BC, as long as you are properly weighted. Underwater, unless you're over-weighted, the BC will be minimally inflated, so the bubble wont have much impact on your trim.

IMO, underwater trim is not a big consideration in choosing a back inflate vs. a jacket.

However, now I use a back-inflate, mainly because I dont like how a jacket squeezes when inflated, and then feels loose when deflated. I always felt the need to adjust the fit when transitioning from surface to diving and vice versa. I also felt I couldn't access the pockets when it was fully inflated.

I have never felt that my back-inflate pushed me forward, and I generally have it fully inflated on the surface (35 lbs lift, generally 8 mm suit, 18-22 lbs weighting). But it may be different for other folks depending on location of the weight, and body shape.

My 2 cents

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

@AdivingBel Interesting. My legs are lean and heavy, they tend to sink (if only my gut was as lean as my legs are ). I was in a 3mm shorty and when I was on my back my legs would sink unless I was finning constantly. My only other experience with a back inflate BC was a rental Scuba Pro Knighthawk and a full 7mm wetsuit - I was able to float on my back much more effectively in that setup. I wasn't using a crotch strap - that's a recurring theme on something to try.

You may also find that raising your knees at the surface will help with the tipping forward problem.

 

[60plus]

Trying not to be wolf-like How much of your dive are you planning to spend on the surface vs under water? Your back inflate will be more stable while diving. None of that feeling like it wants to flip you over. I get what your guy is saying, but maybe more consideration should be given to whats best while diving?

That is a good question. From what I have seen so far and knowing where I am likely to dive I could be spending quite a bit of time at the surface. This could be either swimming between the shore and boats, hanging about at boats or swimming between the shore and dive site. There are some areas where I expect to dive where boats are not allowed to drop anchor. I found some jackets a bit restricting and I wanted something not to heavy to fly with, that is why I asked about the litehawk. I settled on the Axiom because it does not have a cumberbund and the side inflates are not as large as some BCDs. I can't wait to try it out, hopefully next Tuesday or 11 April.

 

[Saboteur]

I moved the weight pockets to the upper cam band on my Zeagle Scout. I found moving 2 lbs to the top band (out of only 6 lbs total) helped things out at the surface. It helped with horizontal trim as well when submerged.