Purging, Pony's and Panic

[00wabbit]

Got it. I have always blown out my regs like that because I was overly concerned with shooting water down my throat with the purge.

I guess the real thing here is to practice switching all the time so when I have to do it, it won't be such a big deal.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Got it. I have always blown out my regs like that because I was overly concerned with shooting water down my throat with the purge.

I guess the real thing here is to practice switching all the time so when I have to do it, it won't be such a big deal.

Not to be rude.. but the real issue is incredibly inadequate training. This stuff should be second nature to any certified diver. ,, back in the old days..... LOL... when everyone learned to actually buddy breath, this stuff was learned and reinforced and this type of issue would probably never arise. This thread is one more piece of evidence which demonstrates to me the inadequacy of current training and reinforces my decision to actually teach my kids to buddy breath, even without masks on. .

 

[maniago]

I dive with a 19cu as a bail out bottle, and I don't purge. I was taught to put your tongue in the way as you breathe slow on the first draw, to keep the water out of your mouth. On a 19, that purge is at least half a lung if not a full lung that's gone forever.

I should note that I have at least a little air in my lungs to push out some of the regs water....If you are completely devoid of air, I can't see that you have any choice but to manual purge....

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2013 at 05:53 PM ----------

Not to be rude.. but the real issue is incredibly inadequate training. This stuff should be second nature to any certified diver. ,, back in the old days.....

Would you care to enlighten us unwashed heathens of the poorly trained new age, how it was done in the "good ol days"?

 

[uncfnp]

Okay, come on guys. I don't even know where to start in response. Are you seriously suggesting that if a diver makes a conscious choice to button purge as their routine, be it a pony reg, alternate air or even a lost and retrieved primary that it is a lack of training or poor technique or otherwise wrong in some way!? Give me a break. Thats ridiculous.

I guess if your lung capacity is such that you are confident that you will always have the lung volume you need if a panicked diver grabs your primary (has not happened to me) or another diver decides to occupy the same space as you and accidentally kicks your regulator from your mouth (has happened to me) then by all means, practice orally purging only. But I CHOOSE to practice button purge as the safest option for me. And since I like consistency, I use it with pony, alternate and primary. Yes I am familiar with the cautious first draw and repurge until the reg is clear method and have used it but I CHOOSE to use button purge AS A BETTER OPTION FOR ME.


in regards to leaving the air on or prime and cutting off, I have seen both sides argued in past threads and no consistent answer. I choose to leave it on knowing it is where any leak or free flow would be obvious. Cutting the valve off would arguably increase the risk to the first stage if pressure is lost but it would seem to be the same risk as soaking the regulator with dust cap and unpressurized and we all are familiar with that debate as well. I have also seen in in line shutoff valve that could be used to eliminate any risk of flood but as others have pointed out, it's another possible failure point. Whichever you choose, again, be consistent.

And Happy Diving...

Lisa

 

[616fun]

Got it. I have always blown out my regs like that because I was overly concerned with shooting water down my throat with the purge.

I guess the real thing here is to practice switching all the time so when I have to do it, it won't be such a big deal.

Bingo. But practice it correctly after consulting with a qualified instructor. DumpsterDiver makes a good point. I took my OW from and 'old school' instructor in 2003 and we were required to learn how to breathe past water in the reg etc. if you didn't learn this is in your OW class you missed some important class time.

BTW - I just sucked water down my pipes on my deco switch at 70' on the Dunderberg last year. My buddies didn't know it. I didn't panic. I coughed thru it and stayed in the water column completing my switch. I'm not trying to say I'm the worlds best diver. I'm saying I've spent time task loading myself so when I hit a bump in the dive plan I work thru it.

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2013 at 06:08 PM ----------

Okay, come on guys. I don't even know where to start in response. Are you seriously suggesting that if a diver makes a conscious choice to button purge as their routine, be it a pony reg, alternate air or even a lost and retrieved primary that it is a lack of training or poor technique or otherwise wrong in some way!? Give me a break. Thats ridiculous.

I guess if your lung capacity is such that you are confident that you will always have the lung volume you need if a panicked diver grabs your primary (has not happened to me) or another diver decides to occupy the same space as you and accidentally kicks your regulator from your mouth (has happened to me) then by all means, practice orally purging only. But I CHOOSE to practice button purge as the safest option for me. And since I like consistency, I use it with pony, alternate and primary. Yes I am familiar with the cautious first draw and repurge until the reg is clear method and have used it but I CHOOSE to use button purge AS A BETTER OPTION FOR ME.


in regards to leaving the air on or prime and cutting off, I have seen both sides argued in past threads and no consistent answer. I choose to leave it on knowing it is where any leak or free flow would be obvious. Cutting the valve off would arguably increase the risk to the first stage if pressure is lost but it would seem to be the same risk as soaking the regulator with dust cap and unpressurized and we all are familiar with that debate as well. I have also seen in in line shutoff valve that could be used to eliminate any risk of flood but as others have pointed out, it's another possible failure point. Whichever you choose, again, be consistent.

And Happy Diving...

Lisa

No one said that. See my post #20. What we did say is that deciding that using a purge button instead of manually purging was not the answer. Poor technique, either purge button or manual, and time actually being comfortable in the water while task loaded was the issue. I don't care if you do one or the other, but don't say that auto purging will suffice the next time it happens. It's a cop out.

In reference to turning the valve off or on, for us conducting decompression dives, we rely on a certain volume of gas being in that bottle when we switch. If its left on and bumped continually we could easily lose enough gas that we can't complete the decompression with said gas. To keep from having the 1st stage flood we regularly feather the valve to repressurize the reg. We do lose a small volume, but not enough to impact our dive plan. Increasing the risk of getting a 1st stage wet is outweighed by the risk of not having the volume of gas needed to complete your scheduled deco.

 

[00wabbit]

Thanks for all the info.

I was taught in OW how to breath over the water and also how to breathe off a free flowing reg. I guess what I didn't get was what the preferred method was when switching regs. I always just did the breath blow to avoid shooting water down my throat and I was used to it from snorkeling.

 

[uncfnp]

No one said that. See my post #20. What we did say is that deciding that using a purge button instead of manually purging was the answer. Poor technique, either purge button or manual, and time actually being comfortable in the water while task loaded was the issue. I don't care if you do one or the other, but don't say that auto purging will suffice the next time it happens. It's a cop out.

There were a number of points. Which one was not said?

And how is it "a cop out" to be proficient at both techniques but choose one over the other? I assume you can do both but choose to orally purge.

 

[00wabbit]

Welcome to page 3 of scubaboard.

 

[616fun]

There were a number of points. Which one was not said?

And how is it "a cop out" to be proficient at both techniques but choose one over the other? I assume you can do both but choose to orally purge.

We are arguing the same point....

Use the purge. I don't care. I don't. It doesn't make me right or you wrong.

The point here is that the assumption was made initially that one approach was the answer over the other based on this incident.

Yes I can do both. While maskless, in a black out situation, and staying in trim while under control of my buoyancy

 

[uncfnp]

Well okay then..