Pure Rec Diving

[ktomlinson]

It's a vast right wing conspiracy to make divers buy equipment....right. I don't even profit through my instruction, I break even and that's my goal. I make money in another industry. Ever met an instructor that got rich through teaching diving?

I think part of your problem with the biomass is that you are looking for websites that back up your claim instead of trying to find the latest science on the topic. The change occurred in the past 10 years, so anything you find that was written before then is irrelevant (this was said before but I didn't see you acknowledge it). You have a lot of diving experience, and probably believed the 90% in the top 33' stuff for a long time. It's sometimes hard to accept when long held beliefs are refuted.

 

[tomfcrist]

Is it a coincidence that the only people here who seem to have an issue with people just taking OW and diving shallow are all instructors? That just does not sound right to me either.

All instructors? I think you are reading into things. I would venture to say that most instructors would fully support a diver that wants to go no further than OW. The caveat to that is that when the said diver expresses interest in things like Deep diving, cavern, cave, etc. and wants to get sea lawyer advise on how to do it without getting any real training....the majority of instructors will strongly encourage formal training.

If someone wants to get their OW cert and never get another cert...its not a problem.

 

[Rich Keller]

All instructors?.

No, not all instructors everywhere, just the ones who have benn commenting here so far.

 

[Colliam7]

I just don't get the need to go deeper or increase risk. I love just being in the 80' and above underwater marine environment.

OK, so you don’t get why others want to do something that you don’t want to. A very fair statement, and perfectly reasonable. I don’t get why people want to spend a lot of money on new cars. I just want comfortable, reliable transportation. But, it is their money, and they should spend it as they wish, and I will buy used cars. (For that matter, I don’t ‘get’ tattoos, and body piercings. Others do. It is their body. To each their own.)

Seems like I'm alone in that perspective.

Not at all! I am curious why would you draw that conclusion? There are PLENTY of divers on SB, and in the real world, who dive only in the surface to 80 ft range, and are perfectly content doing that. Good for them, nothing wrong with it. I can spend hours diving in the sandy shallow area (most of which is 15' or shallower) next to Buddy Dive on Bonaire, year after year, and not get tired of it. And, in contradiction to at least one suggestion in this thread, as an Instructor I have never pushed someone to dive ‘deeper’, just to dive deeper. I have pushed people to continue to improve skills, to set goals for themselves, etc.

But, for the sake of addressing your original statement, why might someone want to dive deeper, and possibly increase their risk? Off the NC coast there are many shipwrecks, some of which lie inshore in shallower waters (<80ft), some of which lie farther offshore, in deeper waters. I like diving both kinds. Two of the 3 diveable German U-boats sit at ~115ft to the sand. And, they don't have much vertical relief. If I didn&#8217;t go deeper than 80 ft, I wouldn&#8217;t see them in quite the same way. There are some other shipwrecks, of historical interest, that lie in the sand at even greater depths. I like to be able to dive them, to see what they are like, to feel a sense of connection with the history that they represent. Statements such as &#8216;over 90% of the life in the ocean lives within the first 33' seem silly, or at least irrelevant. There is PLENTY of marine life at depths of 130 ft, or greater. Off the NC coast I see the largest number of sand tigers and rays on wrecks in the 95 &#8211; 140&#8217; range. I don&#8217;t know why, but that has been my experience. So, I like to dive deeper (than 80&#8217 to see them, swim with them etc. If someone else doesn&#8217;t want to, doesn&#8217;t &#8216;get it&#8217;, fine by me. By diving deeper, I have also seen the effects of, and come to worry about the ultimate futility of, attempts to aggressively control the lionfish population through hunting / harvesting. Lionfish on our shallower (<100 ft) coastal wrecks actually seem to be declining in number. I thought that was encouraging, until I dove a wreck that sits in the sand at 250&#8217;, which was covered with lionfish. They hadn't gone away, they just moved (down) to the suburbs.

One post provided what resonates with me as a wonderful summary:

It's not tech vs/or rec. It's a continuum of enjoyment with wonder at all levels.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Bradmm, you are not alone. While I have gone deeper and inside overhead environments and etc. the most enjoyable dives are those where the animals that are fun to watch, pretty to look at, and who perform interesting maneuvers for us to record, are in the recreational zone for sue. Of course, longer dives occur at shallower depths, and Debbie and I like longer dives. Power to the recreational diver!
DivemasterDennis

 

[tursiops]

So you are a master instructor who does not teach?

Where did I say I do not teach? What I said was, and you quoted it, was I don't sell classes. That's right, I give them away...it is a benefit of going on trips that I lead.

I just went back and looked at the earlier posts. I can't find anyone who fits your "Is it a coincidence that the only people here who seem to have an issue with people just taking OW and diving shallow are all instructors?"

You appear to have some serious grudge against instructors in general and me in particular. I guess it fits your narrative. The problem is your narrative does not fit reality.

 

[tomfcrist]

All instructors?.

No, not all instructors everywhere, just the ones who have benn commenting here so far.

You are a riot.

 

[ktomlinson]

How to destroy years of credibility in a few days the Rich Keller story.

 

[Rich Keller]

Notice that your main message in this section I quoted contradicts your message in the second section I quoted. In the second section, you say divers should be free to enjoy shallow dives without being pushed to take additional classes that will cost them more money. In this section you say divers should be required to take longer (and therefore more expensive) classes right from the start rather than being given the choice as to whether or not they need that extra training. So you are against people being persuaded to take additional training at additional expense. You believe they should instead be required to take additional training at additional expense.

Not contradiction at all. I do believe OW divers should be trained to at least a minimum standard for their own safety and I do not feel that is being done with a dumbed down OW course. I have no problem putting safety before cost but with the current culture instructors seem to be putting cost, or more to the point profits, before safety. Back in the 70s AOW was an advanced course but now it is just OW2. Also back then the wash out rate for OW was about 25% to 30% but now almost 100% pass. Beyond that they should pursue whatever it is they choose.

---------- Post added December 10th, 2014 at 07:02 PM ----------

It's a vast right wing conspiracy to make divers buy equipment....right. I don't even profit through my instruction, I break even and that's my goal. I make money in another industry. Ever met an instructor that got rich through teaching diving?

I think part of your problem with the biomass is that you are looking for websites that back up your claim instead of trying to find the latest science on the topic. The change occurred in the past 10 years, so anything you find that was written before then is irrelevant (this was said before but I didn't see you acknowledge it). You have a lot of diving experience, and probably believed the 90% in the top 33' stuff for a long time. It's sometimes hard to accept when long held beliefs are refuted.

I do not know that I would want to take instruction from a guy who is in business and does not know make any money.

As for the web sites I put up, I did not have to look far, they were all the first sites that came up when I googled that subject.

---------- Post added December 10th, 2014 at 07:04 PM ----------

How to destroy years of credibility in a few days the Rich Keller story.

Credibility with who? You? Why would I care what you think?

 

[ktomlinson]

Not contradiction at all. I do believe OW divers should be trained to at least a minimum standard for their own safety and I do not feel that is being done with a dumbed down OW course. I have no problem putting safety before cost but with the current culture instructors seem to be putting cost, or more to the point profits, before safety. Back in the 70s AOW was an advanced course but now it is just OW2. Also back then the wash out rate for OW was about 25% to 30% but now almost 100% pass. Beyond that they should pursue whatever it is they choose.

---------- Post added December 10th, 2014 at 07:02 PM ----------



I do not know that I would want to take instruction from a guy who is in business and does not know make any money.

As for the web sites I put up, I did not have to look far, they were all the first sites that came up when I googled that subject.

What does knowing how to make money have to do with it? I make money at my day job. I teach diving because I love diving and want to share it with others.

Sorry about the credibility jab. I meant that you have a lot of experience, but not changing in the face of overwhelming evidence and conspiracy theories just sort of blows it.