crlavoie
Contributor
MASS-Diver:
purchasing equipment saturday
- Thread starter mels_2
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barc802
Contributor
I agree totally here!PerroneFord:
The thing about Atomic is they all breath the same! The Z1 Breathes the Same as the T1.
The only differance is the options that come with it like swival and exaust port size. So why force a newby into a B2 over a Z1?
My opinion is that Atomic is a good reg, but they are overpriced for what they are, I do not think that the make good cold water regs though. They should be envio sealed before going in the cold and that must be done every time it is serviced. I went from a Z1 to scubapro mk25/s600.
PerroneFord
Contributor
616fun:
That's quite true. But you don't have to buy a $750-1000 regulator for it to work in cold weather. There's a HELL of a lot of cold weather divers who don't dive Atomic gear. Not saying it's not good stuff, because it is... but WOW.
$800 on a semi-dry? For a few hundred more, they'd be in a drysuit. Or for the same money, in a used DUI.
Just seems like there could be some more effective, and cost effective choices made without having to re-buy in a year's time.
MASS-Diver
Contributor
PerroneFord:
In terms of cold water regs - most of the SPs and apex regs you see are going in LDS around here run atleast $500 (plus spg, etc) so I don't think he's getting that bad a deal. Of course, I dive DS4s that I paid quite a bit less for (although I don't get free servicing or anything else).
Your comment about the semi-dry is 100% on point though. If they aren't ready to go dry - they should spend $100-200 on 7mms. I saw a sweet XL DUI clx450 that was 1 year old and in mint condition sell on ebay for $650 yesterday. My buddy dives a semi-dry - it's nothing buy a wetsuit with nice seals. It's still cold and it still crushes at depth. After a season or two they are all beat up anyways.
pgdive
Contributor
Im not sure if there is anything that I can say that will make any difference to the anti LDS people that are on this board. I'm also not sure whether or not I should have just PM'd the original poster, rather than making this public. Unfortunately the accusations and inaccurate conclusions made in this thread may have cost us a customer and who up until now we had a good relationship with (That has already included a free weekend rental for two) and who we liked and appreciated having in the store.
Here are the facts:
The poster that originated this thread was not our student. She has never been in the store to discuss the mentioned purchase. She took the class with an independent instructor who has a relationship with the store. This instructor asked me to put together some packages that he could give out to his students.
Because this instructor teaches a fairly inexpensive YMCA class and has a lot of college students in his programs. I started with a rock bottom priced package with Mares, Bare and Oceanic equipment that was around $1400 again with Tanks, weights, Bare wetsuit, regulator, Octo, gauges and BC. I had a mid priced package that was still under $2000 and then just to round things out I picked some of the most of the expensive equipment in the store and made the discussed package.
In all reality the poster would not have ended up with a Pinnacle Extreme suit because they are not yet available in womens sizes. Instead we would have spent the time to get her into the right suit, she would have been free to take it out diving to make sure it worked not only in store but in the water.
There were also many generalities made in the proceeding posts. One poster came out with his own package. Not only did he leave out one tank (I dont know why anybody would buy one tank, which is why we include two) but he made assumption about what equipment should cost. I have never understood this way of thinking. What should a car cost, what should a house cost it is all subject to a persons budget. In addition most of you have rounded up the prices of the Pinnacle up to $800 and the Atomic to $1000 to further your point hat we are overcharging people. In the 10 year I have been selling dive equipment I have never steered anybody who was on a budget into equipment that was more than they wanted to spend. I will be the first person to tell someone that for normal recreational diving just about any regulator will be safe, and comfortable. At the same time if someone comes off the street and tells me they want the best regulator that we carry and money is not a factor, I not going to talk them out of a T2.
I really like a lot of the discussion that is on this board and will admit I am on here daily. I think its a good place to go for people in the industry to get a feeling for the pulse of the dive community. I have even tried to convince more the manufacturers to come on and answer questions.
I just do not understand the automatic assumption people make that every dive shop is trying to screw over customers. Like Ive said in multiple posts on here, we are out diving with our customers on a regular basis and I couldnt do this if I had over charged them or was dishonest or sold them gear that was not appropriate.
As far as people asking about dry suits, if thats what the poster wants we can certainly accommodate them. I wouldnt necessarily steer them that way because they literally just got certified and have not done a single dive on their own yet, but if thats what they want we can certainly accommodate them at a good price.
Please next time get all the facts before you jump to conclusions.
Paul
Here are the facts:
The poster that originated this thread was not our student. She has never been in the store to discuss the mentioned purchase. She took the class with an independent instructor who has a relationship with the store. This instructor asked me to put together some packages that he could give out to his students.
Because this instructor teaches a fairly inexpensive YMCA class and has a lot of college students in his programs. I started with a rock bottom priced package with Mares, Bare and Oceanic equipment that was around $1400 again with Tanks, weights, Bare wetsuit, regulator, Octo, gauges and BC. I had a mid priced package that was still under $2000 and then just to round things out I picked some of the most of the expensive equipment in the store and made the discussed package.
In all reality the poster would not have ended up with a Pinnacle Extreme suit because they are not yet available in womens sizes. Instead we would have spent the time to get her into the right suit, she would have been free to take it out diving to make sure it worked not only in store but in the water.
There were also many generalities made in the proceeding posts. One poster came out with his own package. Not only did he leave out one tank (I dont know why anybody would buy one tank, which is why we include two) but he made assumption about what equipment should cost. I have never understood this way of thinking. What should a car cost, what should a house cost it is all subject to a persons budget. In addition most of you have rounded up the prices of the Pinnacle up to $800 and the Atomic to $1000 to further your point hat we are overcharging people. In the 10 year I have been selling dive equipment I have never steered anybody who was on a budget into equipment that was more than they wanted to spend. I will be the first person to tell someone that for normal recreational diving just about any regulator will be safe, and comfortable. At the same time if someone comes off the street and tells me they want the best regulator that we carry and money is not a factor, I not going to talk them out of a T2.
I really like a lot of the discussion that is on this board and will admit I am on here daily. I think its a good place to go for people in the industry to get a feeling for the pulse of the dive community. I have even tried to convince more the manufacturers to come on and answer questions.
I just do not understand the automatic assumption people make that every dive shop is trying to screw over customers. Like Ive said in multiple posts on here, we are out diving with our customers on a regular basis and I couldnt do this if I had over charged them or was dishonest or sold them gear that was not appropriate.
As far as people asking about dry suits, if thats what the poster wants we can certainly accommodate them. I wouldnt necessarily steer them that way because they literally just got certified and have not done a single dive on their own yet, but if thats what they want we can certainly accommodate them at a good price.
Please next time get all the facts before you jump to conclusions.
Paul
MASS-Diver
Contributor
Paul, I've heard nothing but things about your shop. However, that doesn't mean that people can't disagree with some moves you make. I personally thing semi-drysuits are a bad move for any diver, so I posted that. I think most of the rec setups that I see people diving in NE make no sense, but that's nothing personal against you or your store.
pgdive
Contributor
John
Fair enough, I completely understand the Drysuit Semi-dry debate. The reality is the majority of peope we see who are brand new are leaning more towards wetusuits. Thats why we carry everything from a Bare thats $260 up to the Pinnacles that are a lot more moeny. Of course if they really have made up their mind that their going to do a ton of diving in New England a drysuit might be the way to go.
It was more some of the original posts that I was refering to.
Paul
Fair enough, I completely understand the Drysuit Semi-dry debate. The reality is the majority of peope we see who are brand new are leaning more towards wetusuits. Thats why we carry everything from a Bare thats $260 up to the Pinnacles that are a lot more moeny. Of course if they really have made up their mind that their going to do a ton of diving in New England a drysuit might be the way to go.
It was more some of the original posts that I was refering to.
Paul
Paul,
I'm sorry that the anti-LDS is beating you up.. Truth is - a lot of us have (including myself) been stung by a LDS. That being said - I still buy from the LDSs around here, and I also do quite a bit of research on line to ensure that I can get the best deal possible. Sometimes the on line research can be a good conversation starter on price and what 'extras' (free air fills, two years free service, etc) you can work into the equation.
I hope the orginal poster takes all this conversation as a springboard to come and talk to you about a package that fits her needs as a diver. With the investigation she's done, the two of you will be able to build something that works for her.
I commend you for standing up for your business. If I ever end up in the Bosten area, I would frequent your store.
I'm sorry that the anti-LDS is beating you up.. Truth is - a lot of us have (including myself) been stung by a LDS. That being said - I still buy from the LDSs around here, and I also do quite a bit of research on line to ensure that I can get the best deal possible. Sometimes the on line research can be a good conversation starter on price and what 'extras' (free air fills, two years free service, etc) you can work into the equation.
I hope the orginal poster takes all this conversation as a springboard to come and talk to you about a package that fits her needs as a diver. With the investigation she's done, the two of you will be able to build something that works for her.
I commend you for standing up for your business. If I ever end up in the Bosten area, I would frequent your store.
Damselfish
Contributor
Well, someone asked here for opinions and got some, worth what they paid for them but I think generally reasonable given what was known. Sure, the prices for the gear listed may be correct according to the books, and if those are really the best choices of gear and a good value for them great. But something they should get from an LDS over online is good guidance on gear choices as needed, and they haven't yet. Not your fault if they haven't even been in the store (and it sounds like you will do better by them if they actually talk to you) but that was not originally stated.
I don't think "just to round things out I picked some of the most of the expensive equipment in the store and made the discussed package." is the way to get anyone the right gear. The instructor doesn't sound like he's helping his students by having these packages to point to, if he's not also teaching them more than that about gear and gear selection. If he doesn't want to do that maybe he should just send them straight to you for you to do it?
I don't think "just to round things out I picked some of the most of the expensive equipment in the store and made the discussed package." is the way to get anyone the right gear. The instructor doesn't sound like he's helping his students by having these packages to point to, if he's not also teaching them more than that about gear and gear selection. If he doesn't want to do that maybe he should just send them straight to you for you to do it?
pgdive
Contributor
Damselfish
All of the equipemnt is stuff that we believe in and dive with or else why would we sell it. By "picking" the more expensive equipement all I'm doing is giving people a discount on some of the higher end gear that we persnally use regualry. It's not any more complicated than that. There is only so much information that I can put on a piece of paper. Threee pacakage at different price ranges with different features That's all.
Paul
All of the equipemnt is stuff that we believe in and dive with or else why would we sell it. By "picking" the more expensive equipement all I'm doing is giving people a discount on some of the higher end gear that we persnally use regualry. It's not any more complicated than that. There is only so much information that I can put on a piece of paper. Threee pacakage at different price ranges with different features That's all.
Paul
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