Punctured wings

[Braunbehrens]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...


Actually, I am rather impressed with scuba board as a whole. Even with the diverse opinions that float around, it stays remarkably civil in here. That says a lot about the quality and charactor of the members.

Speak for yourself!

 

[cornfed]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...


Actually, I am rather impressed with scuba board as a whole. Even with the diverse opinions that float around, it stays remarkably civil in here. That says a lot about the quality and charactor of the members.

You misspelled "moderators", only one 'e' and no 'b'.... :mean:

 

[padiscubapro]

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...


I think my statement has been taken to mean more than was meant. If you have a dry suit you have a fixed amount of bouyancy from the air required in the suit to keep it warm and you will need to maintain this throughout the dive. You are going to have to manage this air volume regardless and unless you ahve avery heavy set up, most of the bouancy is still going to come from the suit..

Now I agree completely that too much air in the suit hard to manage and will vent out the neck seal at what is normally the most inopportune times. Obviously with heavier configurations such a stage bottles, and in particular steel stage bottles if you use them, you will have to augment the lift in the suit with air in the wing.

I don't agree that a drysuit does not make a good backup under any circumstances. Yes, you have to watch the vertical positioning to keep from venting air out the neck, but it is better than some of the other options and in my opinion better than carrying a redundant aircell on all of your dives that will in all likelyhood never be used.

I guess its how you are taught and what type of drysuit you have..

I dive with a dui, and use absolute minimum volume of gas in it.. I just add enough to stop squeeze so I have very little lif and very little issues to deal with on ascent.. In my case its a good thing.. I normaly dive an inspiration where you must manage the lung volume or you get very buoyant very quickly, plus the bladder/wing the last thing I want to manage is my drysuit..

BYW with a stock inspiration I only dive with 6lbs of lead behind my head to offset the pos buoyancy of the lungs... This is with TWO layers of polartec, and hood, gloves...

People who learned to dive with their drysuit for buoyancy and go on to tech diving generally have to learn their skills all over.. They generally do terrible on the skill drills... especially removing and replacing the entire rig underwater..

 

[tyrell]

Doppler

What happened is like this.When u press the inflator button it got stuck ( doesnt go in or out) in a way that it constantly adds air to the wind.
when u disconnect the hose , the button still remains stucked. and there is a clear passage of air from the wing to the male connector.
If u try to inflate the wing by mouth, all the air will go out from the male connector since there is less pressure in there.

U can simulate this whole situation by pushing the inflator button half way and and hold it while trying to use the mouth inflator.

btw, the wing is Zeagle. and this is the first problem with the inflator after something like 1000 hours of diving.

regards
Mark

 

[kingprawn]

My wing has never leaked. I did develop a large hole in my corogated hose. At the time I was diving in Cozumel, and did not need air in the wing at all. I only noticed the problem when waiting at the surface.

OK, here is my question to you all. If you only need enough lift to counter negative bouyancy due to:

1) weight of compressed air
2) compression of the suit (wet only)

How much do you really need?

And another question:
Rather than use a double bladder wing, couldn't you just deploy a lift bag in the event of a puncture? Since you already have one (and practice with it regularly).

For NetDoc: no, I have never dived a double bladder wing, and don't know anyone that does. The lift bag is my backup plan. I was just wondering if it made sense to others.

 

[cornfed]

kingprawn once bubbled...

Rather than use a double bladder wing, couldn't you just deploy a lift bag in the event of a puncture? Since you already have one (and practice with it regularly).

I know IANTD teaches this. I've never done it but I image it can be a chaotic ride and one of those skills which if you don't practice regularly won't help when you need it.

Cornfed

 

[DA Aquamaster]

kingprawn once bubbled...
OK, here is my question to you all. If you only need enough lift to counter negative bouyancy due to:

1) weight of compressed air
2) compression of the suit (wet only)

How much do you really need?

I agree entirely and that has pretty much the point I have been pursuing. I think in many respects the issue of using the suit versus the wing is one of semantics if not outright dogma given that with proper weighting and no extra weight from stage tanks, deco bottles etc, there is just no need for air in the wing. If their is, you are over weighted.

Sure, if you need more lift for your configuration than a normally inflated suit can provide, use the wing - and this is a reality of technical diving. But if you don't need the extra lift, then don't use the wing. I cannot see the purpose of imposing technical techniques on open water divers who don't need them and worse, that may encourage or accomodate overweighting that is already a poor technique that is endemic among dry suit divers. Just because it is right for tech diver does not make it appropriate for the rest of the diving community. (or even for a tech diver on an non-technical dive.)

I am not opposed to good ideas, evolution in technique, or changing how I do things, but it's important to remember that while good change is good, change for the sake of change isn't.

If a new idea or technique does not offer any advantage over what is already standard and only increases task loading, why make the change?

kingprawn once bubbled...
The lift bag is my backup plan. I was just wondering if it made sense to others.

I carry alift bag on every dive and backup bouyancy is one of the reasons, but not the primary or even secondary reason I do so. It really is in my opinion though a last ditch backup for bouyancy.

The good news is that a total failure of a wing would be rare. With a little thought to positioning, most of the time the wing would be capable of trapping some air somewhere even with a gaping hole. And with a small leak, a normal ascent is possible with the lift bag being coming in handy for hanging during deco.

 

[padiscubapro]

kingprawn once bubbled...
My wing has never leaked. I did develop a large hole in my corogated hose. At the time I was diving in Cozumel, and did not need air in the wing at all. I only noticed the problem when waiting at the surface.

OK, here is my question to you all. If you only need enough lift to counter negative bouyancy due to:

1) weight of compressed air
2) compression of the suit (wet only)

How much do you really need?

And another question:
Rather than use a double bladder wing, couldn't you just deploy a lift bag in the event of a puncture? Since you already have one (and practice with it regularly).

For NetDoc: no, I have never dived a double bladder wing, and don't know anyone that does. The lift bag is my backup plan. I was just wondering if it made sense to others.

Using a lift bag for backup buoyancy is a difficult skill. it has to be practiced regularly, and the deeper you start the greater potential for disaster.. An important point is that the lift bag must have some form of manual dump.. Without it even dumping an open bottom bag is difficult without chancing dumping all your buoyancy..

for someone "rusty" at the skill they are probably better off shooting the bag to the surface and reeling themselves up the line (assuming your line is heavy enough).. Its not easy but a much less likely chance of a run away ascent, plus it can alert the boat where you are and something "may" be abnormal. I would prefer send up a bag to create an upline (which you secure) and use another bag to go up.. at worse case you can let go of the bag you are using and still have something to hang onto..

 

[The Chairman]

I agree with Doppler. You are more likely to have issues with the sky falling than you are going to have to deal with punctured/ruptured wings.

It is not an issue and does not need addressing.

Handling a stuck inflator valve is far more likely (1000X) and how you deal with that is what is important.