Pulmonary Oedema incident

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Sigh. I apologize, as I did not put context with this.

When I first started reading about IPE, there was a lot of cuss and discuss about the age, meds, weight, etc. However, since IPE also happens in very fit people, it means there is a lot more to this affliction.

If the term "affliction" makes you feel better about your chances go for it. From everything I can gather from all the experts I have seen and all the information I can read it seems that it is a "perfect storm" scenario. Everything lines up to make it happen on that one certain spectacular day... but that same day found me with the grace of God to live through it..
 
If the term "affliction" makes you feel better about your chances go for it. From everything I can gather from all the experts I have seen and all the information I can read it seems that it is a "perfect storm" scenario. Everything lines up to make it happen on that one certain spectacular day... but that same day found me with the grace of God to live through it..

Hi, Denise! :wavey: Thanks for joining in!

Is IPE not considered an affliction? :dontknow: Anybody?

Doesn't seem like a disease - no underlying bacteria or virus. It's not communicable.

What IS the proper term for this?


As far as the perfect storm . . . There are enough studies going on that it seems like the medical community may believe IPE is more involved in "unexplained drownings" than anyone thought.

It needs investigation. It seems to parallel the carbon monoxide issue. CO is so rare, people scoff at those that believe in testing their gas. On the other hand, the consequences of CO are so extreme, a tester seems an inexpensive insurance.

So many just found dead . . . what if? What if AGE wasn't so much a cause of death as it is a complication from a person suffering IPE racing for the surface? What if?
 
Jax,

Per this link Prevention and Treatment of Immersion Pulmonary Edema - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov Duke University is/was conducting trials for same (post last updated 2/2011).

Per same website - "Immersion pulmonary edema (IPE) is a condition that has sudden onset in swimmers and divers, and is characterized by cough, shortness of breath, decreased blood oxygen levels, and hemoptysis." (Bold mine)

The term disease, used in the medical context, does not have to be infectious nor contagious, i.e. CAD (coronary artery disease), COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease).

Somewhat more confusing, can be the use of acronyms. For instance, here we are discussing IPE meaning "Immersion Pulmonary Edema" yet, in other medical circles, IPE can also mean "Interstitial Pulmonary Edema."

Welcome to the world of medicine :D
 
Ah . . . . :doh:

So, is there a definition for affliction? I was considering, "One is afflicted with a condition", like being afflicted with arthritis.

EDIT - found this in wikipedia: "Affliction refers to a condition or cause of suffering."

Call it what you may, it assuredly is a cause of suffering.
 
Discussion in a PM (reprinted with permission)

I wrote "whatever it is, I hope we learn more about it."

I think we already are......the first step is to recognize "sumthing funny/strange going on". The next step is to start pulling together common denominators. I think this has also happened (maybe not to the degree we would like but...) as evidenced by the before-mentioned link, quoting "Immersion pulmonary edema (IPE) is a condition that has sudden onset in swimmers and divers, and is characterized by cough, shortness of breath, decreased blood oxygen levels, and hemoptysis".

The next step, from my perspective, is to find/identify common risk factors since (from the same link) "Some individuals appear to be predisposed to developing IPE". What exactly are these "predisposing factors"??

In the meantime, I think the important aspect for us as divers is to look at the common symptoms -- "cough, shortness of breath, decreased blood oxygen levels, and hemoptysis (coughing up blood)." This basically requires a Diver/Rescue Diver/DM/boat captain/EMT/MD to have a HIGH index of suspicion and to place the patient (former diver;)) on high-flow oxygen (greater then 12 lpm, preferably with a non-rebreather mask), aborting the dives, immediate recall of submerged divers, head to shore (continuing high-flow oxygen) radioing ahead for transport, and transport to medical facility via EMS (obvious bias here --- I've worked in Emergency Services > 30 years, but I believe in erring on the side of caution......we are talking about the respiratory system here....failure here results in organism/patient death :cool2:).
 
What I would like to see generated around the diving community is that HIGH index of suspicion . . .

Can we do that? Can we as divers -- especially those who are rescue diver trained -- take this out with ourselves and be alert to the possibility?
 
I believe it's already happening... ;) Many of us will be more suspicious of the signs or symptoms of IPE if we witness/experience them. Before this awareness in the last year or so, many milder cases may have been overlooked and left untreated. Even in severe cases, witnesses may not have thought to mention to EMS the breathing difficulties they observed prior to everything going south, if anything. I think a lot more people are aware now.
 
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I got signed off fit to dive at the end of February. On my birthday as it happened which was a nice present. The regular tests (balance, lung function, etc.) checked out much better than back in September. The battery of cadiological tests (cardiogram, stress echocardiogram, some others) showed a normal and healthy heart. I've been signed off but with conditions - 2 dives per day max, 30m max and no CCR.

This allowed me to firm up on my presumptive trip, at the end of March, to Key Largo. I wanted to dive somewhere first world with first world medical care on the remote chance something should happen to me again. I also wanted warm water so diving at home was off the menu.

Before I went I did an hour or two with the LDS in a pool. All fine although even there I firmly briefed my buddy about what to do if things headed south. Can't be too careful.

A couple of weeks later it was off to Key Largo and Silent World. As we approached Silent World, I felt a strong desire to tell Tony and Rachel to just go ahead and I'd sit the week out and take in the sunrays instead. But I resisted. Getting back in the saddle was always going to cause a little anxiety and I accepted this as normal.

Prior to heading over to KL, I explained to Chris from Silent World about my little episode last year but he was fine with taking me diving. Kit-wise I just had a single tank and a 40cuft pony for redundancy. However overkill or unnecessary I can’t really accept diving without a redundant gas source, even silly shallow.

First dive was the Spiegel Grove. 30ish metres with moderate current (1kt). Wasn't exactly what I'd planned for my first dives back, but it was fine. I did have a couple of moments where I was a little anxious and considered calling the dive but I stuck with it and the moments passed. Second dive was the Spiegel Grove too. Following day some shallow reefs which were nice with no anxiety at all.

I had a couple of dodgy dreams one night. In one I had to go back down to do some missed deco but the water had gone so I had to come up and hope for the best. When I came back to the surface people were asking me how I felt. I said fine but then the room started swimming and I could feel myself fading out and having tunnel vision. I woke up shouting 'I can't breathe'. The other dodgy dream involved the very attractive Lithuanian girl in the coffee shop next door to my work but I won't go into that here :D

My buddies did the Northern Light at 56m with some bull sharks which I had to sit out. I was a bit gutted but there you go. I did some seriously shallow dives in the afternoon, including one short solo dive which was lovely to just be alone in the water and not have to wonder who's doing what.

So there we have it. Back diving. It feels good. And somehow different: listening to my body a lot more carefully now and not taking anything for granted. At all times cognisant of my escape/rescue plan/protocol should something bad happen to me - or one of my buddies. I doubt I’ll ever be a carefree diver again and my diving for the time being at least will remain squarely in the recreational zone.

Thanks to my buddies Tony and Rachel for going diving with me. I know they were watching me like hawks, which must be tiring. Thanks also to Chris at Silent World and his crew. They had complex competing needs to reconcile in me (wanted shallow and OC), Tony and Rachel (wanted CCR and deep) and we all wanted to dive together. Life's no fun without challenges so hopefully Chris was suitably challenged. Rachel was recovering from surgery and I'm pre-surgery with a shoulder injury so we must have seemed like a basket case:-).

I’m now just in the process on booking another trip. Liveabord in the Red Sea. Prior to my trip I had thought perhaps a liveabord, often being somewhat remote from land (and hence hospitals, emergency services etc) were probably too risky. However increasingly my feeling is that given that pulmonary edema tends to either kill you or spontaneously resolve within an hour or two and that in many situations the odds of emergency services getting to you inside this timeframe probably aren’t great, that geographic location may be less of an issue than I first thought. It’s Russian roulette no matter where you are. And indeed the cases that I’ve read with regard to IPE, recurrence and in particular fatal recurrence, were in developed countries so it’s not clear to me that being in a developed country and/or at hand to emergency services necessarily stacks the deck in one’s favour particularly more than diving in remote locations. My thinking is that it's probably less about what country I'm diving in or how remote the location and more about people on the boat understanding what to do in case of emergency and making sure they have adequate O2. A doctor also recently suggested that I should carry IV Furosemide (Lasix) but I haven’t checked this up yet with my dive doctor.

My reasoning above may be flawed and/or biased – happy to get feedback on this.

Thanks and safe diving,
John
 
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Very glad to hear you are back to diving. Enjoy the Red Sea!
 

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