PSD Questions??

[Militant83]

Militant83, I'm going to give the best answer I can and try not to get into a rant over training agencies. Disclaimer, I'm in North Carolina, where there is no state standard as of yet, set forth by Emergency Management nor The North Carolina Rescue Association. As far as training agencies, ERDI (and for the record I am not an Instructor for, I teach PDIC / SEI / CMAS / PADI), is the going trend for Public Safety Dive Teams. Now if you polled all dive teams through out the US, then I would venture to say, it would be a mix up of agencies. I think marketing from SDI / TDI / ERDI, and from paid larger Departments, is the reason ERDI tends to be held as the KING OF TRAINING in public safety diving. Now if you lived here I would sell you on PADI or PDIC, most likely the PDIC Public Safety Diver and Under Water Criminal Investigation Course. But your question is on ERDI and PSDA. PSDA is a training agency that only focuses on Public Safety Diving, where as ERDI has a parent company so to speak that is much larger in comparison, and teaches all realms of diving. With that being said, the promotion of their product (training), tends to be more widely spread. I have taken training from both PSDA and ERDI, and like both programs very much. I have not made the jump yet to either agency for Instructor ratings, simply because I have enough on my plate as it stands now. If and when North Carolina adopts a state standard for Public Safety Dive Teams, I will probably go with the ERDI route, simply because as a shop owner I believe they would help me more with material and promotions (this is still a business to me). Also it is to be noted, a heads up from some big wigs here in North Carolina, let it slip to me that ERDI would be the only agency recognized for training in this field. A former shop that I taught for, the shop owner is an Instructor trainer for PSDA, and has been trying to crossover to ERDI for sometime now. When I asked him why, he stated it was strictly a business decision, and that it was not based on an opinion of one was better than the other. I really think that either program would work better for you, just keep in mind, it is not all about the agency but more on the Instructor. If it was me, i would sit down with each Instructor and interview them both. When you pay for a class, you are hiring the Instructor (an employee some would say). I always interview employees before I hire them. Just food for thought. Good luck in your decision.

You are right about interviewing them. I have been talking to them extensively via email, but plan to sit down with them face to face over the next couple weeks as well. One thing that I don't necessarily like about the first team is from what I'm finding out they they are a private non-profit volunteer team that serves the local county. While the 2nd team is a volunteer team as well but is part of its county EMA division. I might be over thinking it and that might not be as much of an issue as i'm making it.

What is appealing about ERDI is some of its academics are home based study online, so the time spent with the instructor is more hands on training. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Do you think more states might go to what NC will be doing and making ERDI a standard for statewide training at some point?

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

As far as the teams go, being Agency or Department affiliates, 1 of the teams I currently run is a private 3rd party team that assist with County operations. The other 2 being Department ran teams. Regardless of either, our team members all have different training from different agencies, although we have set standards as follows. Divers will have a minimum of OW / AOW / RESCUE / PSD-UCI, all others remain as tenders till they reach those ratings. With that being said all members will train in every position, meaning members who do not have said ratings can still train as a diver, but must remain as tenders during operations. To answer your question, I can not speak for other states. If I'm not mistaken, New York State is pretty strict on what divers must have as far as state standards go. The city of Charlotte (Fire Department) here in North Carolina, being one of the largest paid Departments with a Dive Team, will have a big role in what state standards will say here in North Carolina. They right now are mainly trained by ERDI and RDI (Rescue Dive International). I think that one problem our state has is, Departments are wanting state standards to be set, but they are being fought by shops and Instructors (me being one of them, once again it is a business to me), because the North Carolina Justice Academy will train divers free of charge, but the Instructors are not up to par as the Instructors that teach for a living. Now I know some of the Instructors that teach for the Academy personally, and they are great Instructors, but some times the Government tends to believe they know whats best for its Public Safety personnel, when in reality the people who do it everyday (myself being one) thinks otherwise. Now I am a government employee and have worked in 4 branches domestically (Sheriff, Police, Fire, and EMS). Each agency that I have worked for have their own viewpoints on whether local Instructors (Dive Shops) or those set forth by the Justice Academy are best for their members. Our Local Sheriff's Office, has 2 Divers that are on our County Team (Private), and one of those members is also a Fireman and Medic with me on our Fire Department Team. One receives training (certifications) via the North Carolina Justice Academy (because the Sheriff's Department pays for it) and the other receives her training via my store. As team leader, the certification is not a concern to me (be it ERDI, PADI, PSDA, PDIC, etc.), but the fact that they have legitimate training for the public's well being. That is the main goal in a Dive Team, being able to serve it's community. And trust me, that dead body you bring up or the victim's family that you recovered a murder weapon for, does not give a hoot who you are trained by. They are more concerned with you doing your job than what card you carry in your wallet. As far as the card goes (training agency), the only thing I carry on an operation is a badge around my neck that says Under Water Criminal Investigator. I've been interviewed multiple times at scenes by the press and have never been asked, hey who are you trained by. For the most part the press can't even spell my name right at the bottom of the screen and further more would have a heart attack if I tried to explain to them what PDIC or ERDI stood for. Interview the Instructor and get the training. If you feel like it was not adequate training, then go see the other Instructor. Any and all training will be better than no training. You will learn different things from each Instructor even if they teach the same curriculum.

 

[Militant83]

Just wanted to say thanks guys, I have made up my mind to go with choice # 2. I got a chance to talk to some former team members of the first choice and that team isn't what I'm looking for.

 

[ReefGuy]

That's the problem I'm having with the first team is finding anyone who is currently on it other than the instructor that teaches the course. Most teams have a website where you can get a little info on their team and they do not.

I have talked to both instructors who are also on both teams and for the ERDI I just need my OW to begin dive training with the team or I can start tender training without it and join the team that way. The 2nd team is about the same but they require AOW as well before one can start PSD dive training through PSDA.


All instructor and gear questions aside, when looking at ERDI and PSDA is one agency preferred over the other in the PSD community or are they about equal in the quality of their programs?

Look at the team, then agency. You're kinda setting the cart before the horse. If someone were looking to join my team, and already had PSD training (which has never happened, btw), I would treat them the same as I would a rec diver trying out (with the possible exception (after direct observation) of putting them through a blacked out entanglement drill). If he/she made the team, I would photocopy all of their cert cards and put them in their dive file, then proceed to train them in our team's policies and procedures. Then after a probationary period, as available, the new diver would receive training through PSDA, unless already holding that cert. We'd go from there.

So essentially, previous training would not buy you a whole lot (with my team anyway).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with joining a team as a tender. It will allow you to enroll in most PSD training classes. I'm virtually positive that both PSDA and ERDi require established team membership, although I think you're allowed to take the courses if you're on the wait list or on probation (not sure on that, though).

 

[Militant83]

Look at the team, then agency. You're kinda setting the cart before the horse. If someone were looking to join my team, and already had PSD training (which has never happened, btw), I would treat them the same as I would a rec diver trying out (with the possible exception (after direct observation) of putting them through a blacked out entanglement drill). If he/she made the team, I would photocopy all of their cert cards and put them in their dive file, then proceed to train them in our team's policies and procedures. Then after a probationary period, as available, the new diver would receive training through PSDA, unless already holding that cert. We'd go from there.

So essentially, previous training would not buy you a whole lot (with my team anyway).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with joining a team as a tender. It will allow you to enroll in most PSD training classes. I'm virtually positive that both PSDA and ERDi require established team membership, although I think you're allowed to take the courses if you're on the wait list or on probation (not sure on that, though).

I wasn't necessarily trying to get the training without being on a team... Both instructors I was looking at were the lead members on each of the teams and I was trying to decided on which team was the best all around package for me. So it's like i'm coming on the team as a walk on and getting certified through them. The same process a volunteer firefighter would go through around here join a department and they will provide the certification.

It seems to me that around here public safety divers are hard to come by so the smaller teams who are not part of a full time agency welcome anyone who is interested and allow them a chance to prove themselves. Teams are especially interested in a LEO diver for evidence collection and court purposes.