Pros and Cons of the various BP Harness Styles

[halocline]

Q
Think about this, thread author: Do you want to use a backpack (not a dive backpack, but a regular one) that has fixed straps with no padding, or do you want to be able to adjust it, and have comfortable padded weight bearing straps on your shoulders?

(edited) What carries better on land, will carry better underwater too. (Maybe add a crotch strap if you want but.)

This is a perfect example of how bad "reasoning" has contributed to the awful design of so many recreational BCs. ...."It's more comfortable on land, it must be better underwater"....

The problem is that wearing a BC in the underwater environment is nothing like wearing a backpack. The weight loading is totally different; in fact, in the water the BC is often the source of buoyancy, which is the exact opposite of the situation with a backpack on land. Adding padding on the BC is really foolish if you're wearing neoprene; you're already padded plenty. The extra padding just adds buoyancy exactly where you don't want it.

No offense, but where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[diveprof]

I use a Apeks WTX Harness system with a DiveRite 30lb wing. It is extremely comfortable, flexible and can adapt easily to any diving condition I undertake. I dive here in cold (50f-70f) water and switch between a wetsuit and a drysuit, steel or aluminum tanks. I also use the same system to dive in the tropics and it packs small for air travel. My wife uses the same system with the optional weight pockets, but I opted for a weight belt.

I can chose to slide in a steel plate should doubles be necessary or just use the plate pocket to add weight for trim. The only down side is cost vs a hog and plate setup but the added comfort and flexibility more than justifies the added cost.

I don't buy for a second that the plastic buckles are a significant failure point and in fact, should I need to doff the setup, I can do it quickly. Even if one of the buckles did fail, I could still control the rig without issue and surface safely. In addition, the chances of both failing on the same dive are nill.

If a hog setup makes your heart go pitter patter, terrific! But I like the comfort, security and flexibility of my WTX Harness.

Amen. I like my transplate for single tank diving for the same reasons. I have over 2000 dives and have never seen a plastic buckle fail. Switching from cold water gear to tropical gear sizing is easy. In fact, I will probably need to replace the webbing before the plastic buckles (actually for the price I'll just replace the entire harness setup). 'Course if you are diving doubles with the added weight and stress, maybe (?) a different deal -the tech agencies seem to think so. KISS (keep it simple stupid ) principles are great, but then if we adhered to them we would all be driving low end honda civics or something....

 

[beanojones]

This is a perfect example of how bad "reasoning" has contributed to the awful design of so many recreational BCs. ...."It's more comfortable on land, it must be better underwater"....

The problem is that wearing a BC in the underwater environment is nothing like wearing a backpack. The weight loading is totally different; in fact, in the water the BC is often the source of buoyancy, which is the exact opposite of the situation with a backpack on land. Adding padding on the BC is really foolish if you're wearing neoprene; you're already padded plenty. The extra padding just adds buoyancy exactly where you don't want it.

No offense, but where do you come up with this stuff?

Experience, and then, some more experience.

'Weight loading' (your word) is rarely a problem underwater because things don't really weigh much underwater. I did make the point that it is not weight, but inertial mass. And that matters the same way on land, or underwater. A 40 lb tank 'weighs' 2 lbs underwater, but it still slings around 40 lbs of inertial mass. And that's what matters. And that's where an adjustable harness makes more sense than a non adjustable harness. And of course it makes more sense then an adjustable non-harness, too. If you have never dove somewhere where the surge sweeps you 30 feet this way and then 30 feet that way, then maybe you don't know the difference. But I have, and I do. Surge does not equal current. I see plenty of people visit Hawaii, and freak out when they experience surge. Because then (and maybe only then) you do actually understand the difference between weight and inertial mass, and why securely holding the body is a good thing.

Not everyone wears neoprene. Not everyone does only boat dives. If you only boat dive in neoprene, you can carrry your tank in your hands. That's even simpler than a hog harness. Once you decide to put it on your back, then you have to figure out how to keep it there.

A hog harness is one way. It's not the most comfortable, it's not the easiest to doff and don, and since it does not adjust, it's not the most secure. And there are specific reasons (bad backs, bad shoulders) why a lot of people simply can't, or won't use them. The old, bent black coral divers in the Pacific give up on them exactly for this reason: they can no longer put on their gear because the shoulder hits have made 'hog style' harnesses impossible to wear if they put it on both shoulders.

I know that DIR/GUE is getting a lot of attention and all that, but people have been diving Non- adjustable harnesses (and giving up on them) for a lot longer than WKRP in Cincinatti has been going. Non- adjustable Harnesses kinda work, until they don't work for you anymore. Because you find out carrying doubles and deco bottles sucks with one, if you have to do any hike to the site at all. Or because you realize dislocating your shoulder is not a reasonable price to pay to get your gear off quickly. Or because you want to take your rig on vacation, and dive in shorts and no shirt, and the harness chafes your sunburnt nipples. Or whatever.

Plastic buckles and slides are not a failure point, or they would not be used in hiking gear where they are subjected to much greater weight loads for longer periods of time. So then it just becomes a question of what do you like and why. Me I dove harness starting out.. Switched to regular BCs, and then discovered the TransPac (and ScubaPro S Tek, and X Tek). Granted, I dive where Wetsuits are optional, so how something feels on bare skin matters. And I do weird shore dives where you have to hike in, or dive under ten foot waves on the way out. For most dives, a ScubaPro Classic would do just fine. But all my stuff is on the TransPac so I just use it. Because when the Molakai Express turns our safety stop into a drift dive (or when a customer just cannot make it against the current to get back to the line), or when the captain has to leave the mooring, I got the stuff I need on the BC. Or when I am having to dive under ten foot waves, I don't want the gear slop. Instead of three different rigs, I got one that will do it all. So I dive it.

 

[cool_hardware52]

A hog harness is one way. It's not the most comfortable,

It has been for me, even with 100+ lbs of tanks. Lots of So Cal shore dives "feature" long walks and lots of stairs between the parking lot and the entry.

it's not the easiest to doff and don,

Easily Cured with a bit of practice

and since it does not adjust, it's not the most secure.

This simply wrong. Tight does not equal secure. A fabric BC cinched down to where your circulation is cutoff won't provide the stability of a BP&W.

A properly adjusted Hogarthian harness is a balance between the shoulder straps, waist strap, and crotch strap. None of these need be cinched down. The presence of the back plate, which keeps the tank(s) from rolling allows a Hog harness to be secure and stable without your eyes popping out.

I'll be 50 soon. I played football, raced dirt bikes and worked construction for quite a few years. Not every thing bends like it did when I was 18, yet I can wiggle into and out of my Hog harness without embarrassing myself. It's really a matter of practice and technique.

Tobin

 

[Bretagus]

A 40 lb tank 'weighs' 2 lbs underwater, but it still slings around 40 lbs of inertial mass. And that's what matters. And that's where an adjustable harness makes more sense than a non adjustable harness. And of course it makes more sense then an adjustable non-harness, too. If you have never dove somewhere where the surge sweeps you 30 feet this way and then 30 feet that way, then maybe you don't know the difference.

I don't mean to pick your post apart - I certainly agree with you on all your other points. I'd hate to dive a padded harness on bare skin! And limited shoulder flexibility truly would make donning and doffing considerably more difficult.

But... I'm not sure how being able to adjust your shoulder straps alleviates problems with surge. I feel that it is a common misconception that the "hog" harness isn't adjustable. In fact, I think it could be called the definition of "one-size fits all" adjustable! It simply can't be (easily) adjusted while geared up... but when would you want to?

To the op:
I dive with a continuous thread harness because I was feeling really cheap at the time. If you're diving with exposure protection, that will provide you all the padding you need... and you gotta ask yourself why you want an adjustable shoulder strap (and is it worth the extra $). I too, was skeptical at first, but the continuous thread fits you like a glove... its awesome.

 

[digital_steve]

You can rig up a single piece harness with a pinch clip for donning and doffing that still keeps a single piece harness in tact even if it fails/breaks on the boat.
It's not hogarthian, but it works.

 

[RAWalker]

I don't mean to pick your post apart - I certainly agree with you on all your other points. I'd hate to dive a padded harness on bare skin! And limited shoulder flexibility truly would make donning and doffing considerably more difficult.

But... I'm not sure how being able to adjust your shoulder straps alleviates problems with surge. I feel that it is a common misconception that the "hog" harness isn't adjustable. In fact, I think it could be called the definition of "one-size fits all" adjustable! It simply can't be (easily) adjusted while geared up... but when would you want to?

To the op:
I dive with a continuous thread harness because I was feeling really cheap at the time. If you're diving with exposure protection, that will provide you all the padding you need... and you gotta ask yourself why you want an adjustable shoulder strap (and is it worth the extra $). I too, was skeptical at first, but the continuous thread fits you like a glove... its awesome.

I think the point that was made about surge was the same as the one I attempted to relate and that is with a hog harness you may need to raise your arm and slip out by submerging. In surge this can be a very uncomfortable way to rid yourself of your BC. Using a harness with quick releases allows you to avoid this maneuver and stay on the surface.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's not the most comfortable

I disagree.

it's not the easiest to doff and don,

I disagree. Over the head, it's far, far, easier.

and since it does not adjust, it's not the most secure.

I disagree, it adjusts at the waist with great ease.

And there are specific reasons

Most of the specific reasons that you identity are contraindicators for diving.

... shirt, and the harness chafes your sunburnt nipples. Or whatever.

Not a problem, I have neoprene sleeves over my straps.

Plastic buckles and slides are not a fa ilure point.

The thread the tongue through type fail all the time. Fastclips always pull out if you get tumbled in the surf.

 

[Teamcasa]

Let's sum it up.
Hog harness and hard backplate.
A few use them but are very passionate about it and will defend their choice to the end of time.

Harness system.
More common but more divers use them than Hogs. Divers that use them love them but are not as passionate about them as Hog divers are.

Standard BCD's.
They are the most common system by leaps and bounds. Most of the divers that use them could care less what the other divers use.

 

[DeadCactus]

Just curious, are harnesses interchangeable between brands of backplate? For example will the Transplate harness work with an Hollis backplate or vice versa?