Property Seized

[dotyj]

Hi all:

I haven't been here in a bit.

I do have an update though.

After a few e-mails I got a call from PADI, I won't mention who I talked with.

My instructor was expelled from PADI back in October 2002.

Back in late December, early January when I was home sick with the flu, the feds came in to the dive shop and seized everything that wasn't tied down due to not paying back taxes.

I have no idea where my stuff went. I don't even know where to go from here to find out.

I've not been successful in gaining any current contact info for my ex-instructor either. PADI didn't even have a working contact phone number.

There are a few dive shops in Portland, Oregon who I'm contacting to finish this stage of my diving education. Hopefully I can return to diving soon.

That's my update. Everyone have a good Tuesday.

 

[chiara]

I'm not sure I understand it correctly.

Are you saying the shop was holding some of your own gear?

If you bought it you should be able to demonstrate rightful possession of it through CC slips, invoices or whatever.

 

[dotyj]

I had gear in to have an SPG installed.

chiara once bubbled...
I'm not sure I understand it correctly.

Are you saying the shop was holding some of your own gear?

If you bought it you should be able to demonstrate rightful possession of it through CC slips, invoices or whatever.

 

[JeffAustin]

That sucks!! If you have serial #'s for the regs. you should be able to get them back, but don't wait too long, or your stuff will end up at one of those auctions. Was it the IRS? State B&O Board? You should be able to find out from your local IRS office. Good luck!!

 

[DaveO]

dotyj once bubbled...
...the feds came in to the dive shop and seized everything...

Ugh. James, sorry to hear that.

I found a couple of numbers for the IRS in Portland:
US Treasury Dept
(503) 231-2331
PO Box 92160
Portland, OR

US Treasury Dept
(503) 326-2171
1500 SW 1st Ave # 350
Portland, OR

But I don't know how that works: do they have to coordinate a seizure through the local sheriff's office?

 

[Wendy]

Feds will hardly ever (if ever) keep evidence/sezied property with local agencies. That's a big link in the chain of custody that they would be leaving open if they did.

FInd out exactly what agency did the seizure. Contact them and let them know that your personal property was seized by them during thier investigation. Make sure you have proof of ownership. You may have to wait until the case is closed and all appeals have been made, which oculd end up being years. Hopefully they will just photograph your property and return it to you.

 

[Travisc]

drop me an email directly, I am involved in the Seattle diving scene and it does dip down into Oregon occasionally I and I might be able to find something out for you.

Travis

 

[AzAtty]

If the property was seized for unpaid taxes, Revenue Agents (a.k.a. "damn revenooers") or federal marshals most likely executed the seizure. I'd check with the IRS first.

I don't do much tax work, so I'm not familiar with their procedures. I know there's this little thing called the Fifth Amendment that prevents the federal government (IRS) from depriving you of your property without due process of law.

My dear old dad has been practicing in Oregon for going on 40 years and has plenty tax experience. He might be able to provide you with some direction. PM me if you'd like his contact information.

 

[scubaredneck]

I know there's this little thing called the Fifth Amendment that prevents the federal government (IRS) from depriving you of your property without due process of law.

I think you mean the Fourth Ammendment. The Fifth Ammendment protects defendants from self-incrimination.

 

[AzAtty]

The Fourth Amendment governs unreasonable searches and seizures, e.g. warrantless searches. There is no evidence of a Fourth Amendment violation in this case. In any event, dotyj's property was not the target of the search and seizure. The IRS may have inadvertently seized his property as a result of a lawful search of the LDS's shop. I suppose that he could argue that an unreasonable seizure of his property occurred, but I have not researched the issue of the standing of third parties to challenge the validity of seizures when their own property was not searched and when the search was otherwise constitutionally valid.

On the other hand, the Fifth Amendment contains the "due process clause" applicable to the federal government. Most people recognize the Fifth Amendment as the right to be free from self incrimination, but it also contains the provision that "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor shall property be taken for public use without just compensation." That language is known as the "due process clause," and claims that the federal government wrongfully took or held property are almost always prosecuted under that clause.

As dotyj probably was not the victim of a warrantless search or seizure (at least there is no evidence of it), his best claim would fall under a due process violation if the IRS attempts to hold his property without granting him due process of law, i.e. the right to a hearing and an opportunity to establish that the property belongs to him. My point was simply that the IRS might be justified in taking his property if it was within the bounds of whatever authorizing document under which the IRS operated, but that the IRS could not keep his property without violating the Fifth Amendment due process clause unless they gave him a chance to prove his ownership.

Incidentally, the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment is made applicable to States by the Fourteenth Amendment.

Clear enough?