proper weight and help from rolling

[SHARKBAIT94]

what’s a good base number in weight for a male 6ft 230lbs with a 7mm full wet suit? I use 5lbs on both sides of my tank equaling 10lbs and was diving with about 23lbs in my wi pockets. My buoyancy is ok I can kind of float neutral but I tend to lean over or roll over. I dive mostly or will be diving mostly in new jersey.

 

[RichLockyer]

Two problems... I presume you are using a jacket style BCD and not a back-inflate type.
That's a problem. The jacket BCD concentrates it's lift on your sides and in front of you. When you don't have much (or any) air in the BCD, it's not bad, but the more you add, the more it will make you tend to turtle.

The second problem is the 10 pounds on the tank. You now have a center of lift that is very low, and a center of gravity that is high.
You could try augmenting the BCD with a weight belt and carry that 10 pounds as far forward as you can.

Personally, I prefer a backplate and wing, but you can get SOME benefit from a back-inflate BCD like the Malibu RDS... you're still going to have the weight problem though.
The advantage of the backplate is that a stainless plate weighs between 5 and 10 pounds, and it puts the weight right ON your back... and under the wing, which is your source of lift. A conventional weight belt makes up for the rest of the needed weight, but there are WI style pockets available.

That's the easy part... now the hard part.

I'm going to be brutally honest, and please do not take it personally... unless you are extremely muscular, hit the gym and lose some weight.
I was at 220 last year, and gradually worked down to a plateau at 210. In April, I finally got serious about getting back into shape and am now at 185, with a 10% drop in my body fat composition. I was able to remove 7 pounds from my weight belt (and I dive a drysuit), and my air consumption has gone down from a previous best of 0.60 in the tropics to a new best of 0.40 here in California. Resting heart rate has dropped from the mid 80s to 60, and my blood pressure has dropped from 143/93 to 115/75.
I feel great.
It's been a lot of work... adjusting to a properly balanced diet (no Atkins or South Beach BS), and I'm up to 6 miles running nearly every night except the two nights a week that I work upper-body weights. I started slowly... no weights, just an hour of a 4mph brisk walk every night. I gradually threw in a little running as my system could handle it... 2 minutes running, 10 minutes walking, then up to 5 and 10, then 5 and 5. Now I'll sometimes do 10 and 5, but not often.

 

[Sideband]

Rich,
I'm going to go with your answer. I was thinking it may have something to do with diving in New Jersey but after reading your post I'm pretty sure you are closer to the mark.

Joe

 

[SHARKBAIT94]

-Rich
No I won't and don't take it personally maybe I should have added that I am mostly muscle with a tad of a belly. According to my doctor I’m right in the weight rang I should be in give 5 lbs with my body build. I am very active. Air consumption has not been a concern BUT I can see how it would affect a persons diving don't banish me but I do smoke. The back plate and wings I really don't like maybe its just the look of it I really don't know I have no prier experience with it but it don't look very enticing plus I hear some of the other divers around me who use them say they really are a tec bc and not really meant for the rec diver such as my self who is just going to float around and enjoy the sport. I thought it was just maybe I have to get use to my bcd and set up or take the weights out of the two pockets in the back. As to a weight belt I have to give respect to those who started in this sport and only had a weight belt. The weight belt tears the h3ll out of my hips. I think really I was looking for the golden answer as to nope you are doing it wrong. But any and all info has been and is always helpful.

 

[tg54]

You mentioned that you have 23 pounds in your WI pockets. Unless you split a pound weight in half (11.5# per pocket), that may well be your problem. A little bit makes a big difference to a new diver. I know, I did the same thing.

Balance your weight, left and right. Make sure your BC is centered, and that your tank is straight on your back, not tilted.

With breathing control and trimmer swimming, you'll be able to use less weights.

Have fun!

 

[RichLockyer]

Okay... glad to hear that your weight is not a part of the problem.
BTW: I quit smoking cold-turkey when I started diving

Relax... I'm not going to go into a DIR sermon.

As far as the W/BP being a tech thing, you hear that all the time. Primarily from people who either sell jacket BCD's, or from people who have recently bought one. A W/BP system is actually cheaper than most high-end BCDs... WAY cheaper than common "Tech BCs".

It really isn't just a tech item. It just happens that tech divers use them. Why do they use them? They are streamlined and efficient. If it is beneficial to a tech diver, then there's no reason that it won't be beneficial to a rec diver. Things that make it a "tech" rig and less applicable to rec diving would be details in the configuration, such as the lighting system, regulator hose configuration, etc...
No, you don't need an 18 watt HID canister light to look around the reef (but they ARE very nice).

I am strictly a rec diver, but have been using a W/BP system for over 2 years, and have been very happy with it.

Jacket BCs present a larger profile in the water, which creates more drag. Remember, water is 800 times more dense than air. An increase in cross-section of your u/w profile of only a couple of inches has the same effect as adding a 36" diameter parachute to your back on the surface.

For many years, divers used ABS backpacks and tanks, either with or without a wing. The jacket BCD wasn't introduced until well into the 1970s. In these times, tech diving was pretty much limited to commercial and military operations, with a few scientific expeditions.

No, you don't have pockets to put stuff in, but you can add them, either to the suit as I have, or to the harness itself.

At least take the opportunity to borrow or rent a back-inflate BCD and see if it makes a difference. If it does, then you would see further improvement with a W/BP, but the basic back-inflate BCD may be enough to make you more comfortable, and you still keep the pockets

 

[MyDiveLog]

Sounds to me like you could be as much as 10 bs heavy...depending on the tank. If you find yourself adding more than a couple of minor puffs of air to your BCD at depth (say 40') then you probably are over-weighted. Ideally you wouldn't need any air at that depth.

I dive with a 7 MM wetsuit and, when I'm using an AL80, I wear 20 lbs of weight. I'm 6'3 and 210. If your BC has four pockets (one on each side of the tank and one on each side in the front), then you should spread whatever weight you have evenly ... helps keep you balanced in the water.

Good luck!

 

[RichLockyer]

Ideally you wouldn't need any air at that depth.

Yes you will.
Theoretically, if you are PERFECTLY weighted, you will need roughly 5 pints of air in the BCD to compensate for the weight of the air in the tank to remain neutral at the surface at the beginning of the dive.
At 40ft, that 5 pints has compressed to less than 2.5, which needs to be replaced, and the wetsuit already has a significant degree of compression, which will require more to be added due to the lost buoyancy.

I dive with a 7 MM wetsuit and, when I'm using an AL80, I wear 20 lbs of weight. I'm 6'3 and 210.

Your body must be extremely dense. PADI's basic guidelines for someone at 210 are to begin with 10% of your body weight, then add 3-5 pounds for the suit. That's a minimum of 24, and as much as 26 pounds as a starting point. You THEN need to add another 5 for the AL80. Sharkbait is 230... add another 2 pounds to that.
I've known very few people who can even submerge using the 10% rule with more than a 3mil.

YES, experience helps. Over the years, I was able to drop about 5 pounds from what I needed when I took OW, but I still required over 30 pounds, diving a shell drysuit and steel HP120 tank until my recent weight loss.

 

[bdrannik]

For many years, divers used ABS backpacks and tanks, either with or without a wing. The jacket BCD wasn't introduced until well into the 1970s. In these times, tech diving was pretty much limited to commercial and military operations, with a few scientific expeditions.

SharkBait, I'd have to say Rich's suggestions are about right on the money.. Also, at 6' and a muscular 230, I feel sorry for the shark that tries it... I'm a mildly gelatinous 5'7", much better shark meal unfortunately...

Rich - that ABS backpack is what I still dive.. Here's some photos and description of my rig:
http://www.scubaboard.com/t64274.html

 

[donacheson]

...

It really isn't just a tech item. It just happens that tech divers use them. Why do they use them? They are streamlined and efficient. If it is beneficial to a tech diver, then there's no reason that it won't be beneficial to a rec diver. Things that make it a "tech" rig and less applicable to rec diving would be details in the configuration, such as the lighting system, regulator hose configuration, etc...
No, you don't need an 18 watt HID canister light to look around the reef (but they ARE very nice).

I am strictly a rec diver, but have been using a W/BP system for over 2 years, and have been very happy with it.

...

Ditto that. I've been diving a W/BP in one form or another since 1978, mostly recreationally. The only downside I'm aware of is mine (and some others if I've read between the lines correctly) doesn't float me comfortably on the surface. A crotch strap and less-than-full inflation of the wing help, though. However, for the little time I spend there, it's easily managed.