Promoting diving beyond divers skill levels

[TMHeimer]

I would say a DM SHOULD speak up (tactfully, as pointed out before) if he/she overhears dangerous advice. I would THINK he would not be in legal trouble if he stayed mum. I would THINK it would be legally risky for a DM HIMSELF to advise OW divers to go below 60'. I've been told by some this is a breach of standards. As mentioned before, I KNOW of several well-established shops-- and have read of MANY MORE--saying "If you are OW only you can hire a DM to do this or that". Well, if you were "qualified" to go deeper or into more dicey situations than "conditions equal to or better than what you were trained in", then why would you NEED to hire a DM to go with? OW divers with hundreds of dives or more are not in fact inexperienced, obviously. Exactly where agancies stand on this as far as depth, etc. goes, TO ME, is not clear. As well, aside from depth, "conditions equal to or better than those you were trained in" is also extremely vague. I guess it could mean if you were trained in a calm lake you should never go to the ocean. If trained in the ocean on a calm day, you should not attempt rougher water or go near any measureable current. I reality many people gain experience on there own without classes and do in fact increase their depth. Is this OK with the agencies? My point is this seems to be quite a grey area indeed.

 

[CT-Rich]

I would say a DM SHOULD speak up (tactfully, as pointed out before) if he/she overhears dangerous advice. I would THINK he would not be in legal trouble if he stayed mum. I would THINK it would be legally risky for a DM HIMSELF to advise OW divers to go below 60'. I've been told by some this is a breach of standards. As mentioned before, I KNOW of several well-established shops-- and have read of MANY MORE--saying "If you are OW only you can hire a DM to do this or that". Well, if you were "qualified" to go deeper or into more dicey situations than "conditions equal to or better than what you were trained in",

I have seen how newbies stir up the bottom on checkout dives... they should just give them a low vis cert

then why would you NEED to hire a DM to go with? OW divers with hundreds of dives or more are not in fact inexperienced, obviously. Exactly where agancies stand on this as far as depth, etc. goes, TO ME, is not clear. As well, aside from depth, "conditions equal to or better than those you were trained in" is also extremely vague. I guess it could mean if you were trained in a calm lake you should never go to the ocean. If trained in the ocean on a calm day, you should not attempt rougher water or go near any measureable current. I reality many people gain experience on there own without classes and do in fact increase their depth. Is this OK with the agencies? My point is this seems to be quite a grey area indeed.

I suppose they might object to more over the green area.... the one that pays the bills.

 

[Dsix36]

I have never been very tactful and certainly don't keep my mouth shut either. I will (and have) spoken up immediately when someone was giving dangerous or stupid advice about a dive. I have also refused to do a dive that was not within my own training and comfort levels until the dive plan was modified to be within my training. I don't care if someone thinks of me as an ass because I call them out, but it is better to keep a diver safe than for me to make friends.

I once had an instructor tell me that an equipment issue was acceptable and that I could dive it just fine. This was after my training and I told him, point blank, "This is my life and MY decision. I am following YOUR training and you are now WRONG". I did not do the dive that day, but waited until necessary repairs could be made.

In the end, I can not force anyone to take my advice, but it helps me sleep at night to know that I did all that I could to help prevent a possible incident.

There is nothing about today's dive that is worth your life.

 

[TheMic]

I would have to step in an possibly cut the "veteran diver" off. I have seen a similar situation, and we had to immediately explain to the students the risks associated with what the other diving was saying. We also always stressed to only dive in your comfort level, and that you can call a dive at any time and for any reason.