Project to build a mini-commercial filling station..

[Ali.Q8]

hello all..

In Kuwait, the diving community is enlarging fast and our filling stations are lagging behind, so me and a couple of friends might take this oppertunity to build a small commercial filling station for just standard air.

Naturally, I do the reasearchs and googling but I found it hard to find the right information . maybe I'm not searching for the right terms.

questions come to my mind are:

- layout and lining of the room
- ventilation and airconditioning of the room
- type of Air Quality tests and specific contaminants standards
- Compressors for normal air that fills maybe 5 tanks at a time.
- Testers & analysers.
- Procedures (I assume this comes with the compressors though)

I know I am asking for so much, but any pointers are really appreciated as I will continue to search about this topic. I look for almost best possible quality.

Thanks so much for your time

 

[Isaac-1]

Much of the question of testing, layout, etc. will be dictated by regulatory concerns in most locations. I suggest you start with your local government regulatory people, most likely the same group that may regulate other compressed gas suppliers (welding gases, etc.). If none exists in your location, I would look to the diving industry groups like PADI with their internal requirements for a certified clean air station, along with those companies that specialize in designing fill systems and companies that sell compressors in your market. There are many variables that effect design of a good air fill station, one of the more important ones is ambient local temperature and more importantly humidity. The higher the humidity the shorter the life of the filter cartridges that filter the air coming out of the compressors, this is enough of an expense that many people living in areas with high day time temperatures and humidity choose to only run their compressors at night, either directly filling tanks, or filling cascade banks.

There is much more to say on the topic, however I must leave now.

Ike.

 

[Ali.Q8]

Ike , thankyou so much for your reply.

It does seem that I am asking about regulatory requirements, however, I was just more concerned about delivering good quality of air to customers. I should mention that there are almost no regulators for this type of activity. It does sound bad but eventually it will appear as the divers and dive centers grow.

When I wrote the post I wasn't aware of the quality and type of compressors available. after some research I found that almost all compressors comply with standards in terms of purity of air they deliver and as you mentioned temperature and humidity does affect cartidge life considerably. Which gives me the conclusion that I need to provide good air conditioning to the room as well as some kind of humidity control. which are easily done.

Whenever I search for compressors over the net, the make Max-Air keeps on showing up.
As a start, Im considering filling two tanks at a time now since the prices were somewhat shocking

something that fills 2 tanks at around 10 minutes is acceptable, an example (I think) , is the Air-Max 90SE (Electric) , just one thing I'm not clear about its description is the clause "Dual purified air outlets, one for direct fill and one for cascade" - Does that mean I can directly fill only one tank and the other outlet is only for cascade? - or I can directly fill TWO tanks at a time with it?

Ali

 

[veriqster]

The Deco Stop
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...ssed-breathing-air-potential-evil-within.html
Read these, if you still have some questions try to make them as specific as possible and don't be shy to ask - you will plenty of good advice in here.
Bauer is basically the "go to man" when it comes to commercial machines that are run thousands of hours, sometimes almost continuously, there are some others but my understanding is that "commercial / military grade" small machines as you seem to be looking for are mostly Bauer.
P.S. Let's not start another flame regarding compressor manufacturers - I personally run a former military non-Bauer and can't be more happier about it.
P.P.S. After doing the reading you might realize that you most probably need a bigger budget - I did

 

[mike_s]

hello all..

In Kuwait, the diving community is enlarging fast and our filling stations are lagging behind, so me and a couple of friends might take this oppertunity to build a small commercial filling station for just standard air.

Naturally, I do the reasearchs and googling but I found it hard to find the right information . maybe I'm not searching for the right terms.

questions come to my mind are:

- layout and lining of the room
- ventilation and airconditioning of the room
- type of Air Quality tests and specific contaminants standards
- Compressors for normal air that fills maybe 5 tanks at a time.
- Testers & analysers.
- Procedures (I assume this comes with the compressors though)

I know I am asking for so much, but any pointers are really appreciated as I will continue to search about this topic. I look for almost best possible quality.

Thanks so much for your time

no "banks"?

even if you don't start with a bank system, you need to design your system so you can expand to it.

same thing with designing in the ability to expand with some sort of nitrox blending later.

 

[rcontrera]

Since you are in Kuwait, I suggest going with a compressor company that is locally available. Maxair is an American re-brander of the ColtriSub compressors which are available to you from ColtriSub Egypt.

Back to your questions, though.

First off, you need to be able to keep the compressor cool and clean. That means you need to keep it in an enclosed, air conditioned space. Dirt leads to heat and heat leads to oil breakdown and eventual equipment breakdown.

Your requirement of filling 5 tanks at a time can mean that you will need a HUGE compressor (about 300-400 cubic feet in ten minutes is about 35-40 cfm) or a fairly good sized high pressure cascade system. What you really need to figure out, though, is how many tanks you plan on filling during the day and that will help determine what size compressor you will need.

As for air testing, there is no shortage of mail order air testing laboratories. You may be able to find one fairly close to you or, if you have to, there are several in the US. However, that said, if you add on additional filtration to whatever compressor system you have selected and change filters regularly, air quality is pretty much guaranteed. If your insurance company requires testing, ask them who they recommend.

As far as procedures, that depends on how you have your system put together. If you have just a basic compressor, you will use a totally different procedure than if you also have a fully automatic compressor, cascade system and full fill panel.

Hope that helps.

 

[Isaac-1]

Sorry about taking so long to get back, my internet connection at home has been down for a couple of days, and I have not had much free time at work. In fact I only have a few minutes now, so I will be fairly brief, when it comes to compressors, there is Bauer and there is everyone else, that being said there are some other good brands, and for a commercial operation in a remote location I would pick which ever one has the best support, as your compressor will need repair sooner or later.

The question about how many tanks per day vs. a fill rate of tanks is another good one, as you can bank air in a cascade system, filling the cascade at night, then using the banked air to fill customers tanks during the day without the need to run the compressor.

Here is an example of how one might layout a system capable of filling 100 80 cu ft tanks per day

100 x 80 = 8,000 cu ft per day

Assuming you don't want to be there 24 hours per day, and compressors need supervision while operating (some more than others), lets see how big of compressor you need to pump 8,000 cu ft in 8 hours, thats 1,000 cu ft per hour, or just under 17 CFM. In reality the tanks will not be empty, and 80's are really about 77 cu ft., so you could probably take about little off that 17 CFM rated need. Now being in a remote location if your budget allows you would be better off with 2 compressors, so your not out of business if one goes down, you will just have some longer work hours.. (of course bigger is better here as it cuts down on that 8 hours of compressor run time per day)

So we start with 2 compressors in the 8-10 CFM range, next you need some place to store some/all of that air, a common choice in the U.S. are 444 Cu Ft 4500 psi tanks. Now sizing air banks is a complex issue, but as a rule of thumb you they must be bigger than the amount of air you want to get back out, since at least one tank in the bank must have enough pressure to top off the tank your filling. For a rule of thumb size it at 1.25 times your expected use, effective amount of air you get will be dependent on a number of factors about the way you plumb the cylinders with one way priority valves, etc. So we have 8,000 cu ft per day useage, times 1.25 for rule of thumb sizing, that gives us a bank of 10,000 cu ft. or about 22 444 cu ft tanks. Add on assorted plumbing, lets say 5 fill whips, manifold gauges, blast proof containment, some rental tanks, etc. and your set.

To put all this together on a budget using commonly found used equipment, and some ball park pricing baed on the U.S. used market, ebay, etc.
:

2 used 8-10 CFM Bauer compressors $3,000 - 5000 each (there is a nice looking 7 CFM bauer on ebay now for about $4,500) Deals can be found though, I bought a 12 CFM diesel powered military surplus unit for under $500 last year (plus another $700 upgrading filtration, and other modifications for Scuba use)

22 444 CU Ft cylinders, typical used price $300 each, $6,600

5 fill whips, manifold fill system $1,200

Assorted fittings, hoses, etc. $1,000

Lets say 75 scuba tanks with valves, $100 each in bulk $7,500


Of course then you get into Nitrox, CO monitors, and all sorts of other safety stuff like tank testing machines for VIP+ etc.

Ike

And of course you have freight,, etc.

 

[H3LlIoN]

I hate to sound cliche' with the c-card extravaganza, but there are agencies that offer certifications that will cover a lot of the basic questions you have. At the very least, you should hang around a shop that fills and get comfortable working with the equipment. With this approach, you will also have a "mentor" to give you hands on instruction, in addition to the information you will find on here.
Furthermore, realistically assess your requirements. I realize that it was merely an example, but a 22 bottle banked twin compressor operation is definitely overkill for what you are considering.

Additionally, if you are looking to make this a commercial (read:retail) operation, then you will also need to factor in having at least one of you trained in hydro/VIP inspection processes, and will need the necessary hydro equipment as well. This is, of course, assuming that this is even a guideline in Kuwait. I can't speak personally to that, although it should definitely be considered as a safety factor. Hope that helps, good luck in your venture.

 

[mikes351]

Issac thanks for your information this has helped me more than all the books I have read to date. Although not as big an operation as Ali's I still need a cascade system. Any suggestions on a good site to buy the whips and necessary hardware?

 

[widget]

, one of the more important ones is ambient local temperature and more importantly humidity. The higher the humidity the shorter the life of the filter cartridges that filter the air coming out of the compressors,
Ike.

Sorry for the question, and I know it has nothing to do with the op post, but I am confused,....the way I see it, air can only hold a given amount of moisture at a given pressure, so humidity should not really be a determining factor in a filter cartridge life.? Surely temperature and pressure are the more important factors in determining effective cartridge life?