Project Argonaut, totally new, vintage style DH regulator

[Avonthediver]

I did the whole Q&A e-mail last night to find out a little info on how in the future one might buy a Kraken, and Bryan sent this

Argonaut Kraken FAQ
You can find 99% of the information about it in two places.
Argonaut Kraken Catalog Page
Be sure you click on the picture lower down on the page for more
information along with photos.
Phoenix and Argonaut Specialty Area
This is the area of the site where we discuss the Argonaut and
show a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
Can I use a DIN fitting?
Yes.....If you can find a DIN for a Conshelf XIV it will work. I have no
source for them nor any more information. I discourage DIN use on a double hose because it makes
the regulator stick out too far on most plate/backpack setups. This could make it difficult to position it
on your back for optimal breathing performance.
Yoke Pressure Rating?
4000 psi
Can I get on a waiting list?
NO...There is NO waiting list.......48 people ponied up their hard earned
cash during the Fundable crowd funding campaign to help me build the Argonaut. Those people have
either paid in full for an Argonaut Kraken or have paid to be on the list to buy one as soon as I'm
finished. So the first 48 are spoken for. Once everyone from the campaign has their Argonaut I will
put them in the website store for general sale.
If this happens it will be late in 2014 and there is NO
secret list and there will be NO secret notifications to anyone period. I think this is the most fair way to
do things so everyone has the same opportunity. Please watch the VDH Facebook page and the
Argonaut section of the website forum for any updates or new information on the Argonaut.
What color do they come in?
Any color as long as it's black. There is a color option on hoses. Black,
Yellow or Kraken Red. The red is a special color tint and may only be available for a short time.
Price?
Around $680.00

I will have one when the time comes and I really do love that red its just bad ass! This is just such an amazing project bringing the past alive for a new generation, who I might add has never had much if any contact with our history. I am just getting into the vintage thing so this to me is the right time to get involved!

 

[Luis H]

Bryan at VDH just received the Argonauts cans on Friday.

There are a lot of details that were designed into the cans. Many of the details are not obvious. Just to mention a few of the design considerations: there are structural features, design geometry to improve aerodynamic flow, the cans were made to interface with all the other parts, they also have enhanced compatibility with backpacks and BCs, convenience and easy assembly, etc. The cross-section of the cans is not uniform. The material thickness changes as needed to improve strength and function.

I even made the vent holes just barely large enough so that I can purge the regulator with my finger. If you have very large finger it may not work, but must should be able to reach the edge of the diaphragm and the edges of the can are smooth so you should not get your finger stuck. All you need to do is reach the edge of the diaphragm to purge it.

He is pre-assembling the cans at this point.

Notice that both the nuts and screws are captive. I wanted to avoid loose hardware. The nuts are pressed in and the screws are held by a very small O-ring.
You can see in the pictures.

You can just undo the six screws until they are loose and separated the cans. The screws should stay with the cover even when you turn it up-side-down.

Don't try to pull the screws from the can. There is no need.

No loose hardware should translate into no loss hardware, and a lot more convenient.

 

[danvolker]

Has anyone looked at the issue of cobbling a fine sponge with the exhaust----attachment potential, etc.?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, when inventor Jack Kellon was developing the BMD Rebreather, the Odyssey Rebreather, and the Halcyon RB 80, he had a sponge-like filter that would take any "burping" of the semi-closed rebreather, and eliminate the traditional large and noisy bubbles of a large gas escape --like an exhale on OC.....All that would come out from the other side of the fine sponge, was a very fine "fiz" ..bubbles so tiny that they made no noise, and were far away from the diver before they could expand enough to even relate to bubbles.

The point here, is that if this Argonaut can work with the filter system, it would be drastically SMARTER for 95% of photographers and videographers, than the high danger Rebreathers --such as what killed Wes Skiles....not to mention the cost of these Rebreathers and the training for them, would be enough to dive all over the world, for a very long time, with the Argonaut

 

[Nemrod]

Has anyone looked at the issue of cobbling a fine sponge with the exhaust----attachment potential, etc.?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, when inventor Jack Kellon was developing the BMD Rebreather, the Odyssey Rebreather, and the Halcyon RB 80, he had a sponge-like filter that would take any "burping" of the semi-closed rebreather, and eliminate the traditional large and noisy bubbles of a large gas escape --like an exhale on OC.....All that would come out from the other side of the fine sponge, was a very fine "fiz" ..bubbles so tiny that they made no noise, and were far away from the diver before they could expand enough to even relate to bubbles.

The point here, is that if this Argonaut can work with the filter system, it would be drastically SMARTER for 95% of photographers and videographers, than the high danger Rebreathers --such as what killed Wes Skiles....not to mention the cost of these Rebreathers and the training for them, would be enough to dive all over the world, for a very long time, with the Argonaut

Double hose regulators are already very quiet compared to a single hose and the bubbles are behind you. I find marine life much more approachable with any (two stage) double hose regulator compared to typical single hose bubble blowers.

I would not want anything that would cause back pressure on the system. The Argonaut has possibly the lowest work of exhaust of any regulator--period.

The housing, if you look at the photos, the exhaust valve is purposely positioned very close to the upper diaphragm surface and centered for optimum performance. I doubt (and know) there is any room there for additional gizmos.

N

 

[Luis H]

Has anyone looked at the issue of cobbling a fine sponge with the exhaust----attachment potential, etc.?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, when inventor Jack Kellon was developing the BMD Rebreather, the Odyssey Rebreather, and the Halcyon RB 80, he had a sponge-like filter that would take any "burping" of the semi-closed rebreather, and eliminate the traditional large and noisy bubbles of a large gas escape --like an exhale on OC.....All that would come out from the other side of the fine sponge, was a very fine "fiz" ..bubbles so tiny that they made no noise, and were far away from the diver before they could expand enough to even relate to bubbles.

The point here, is that if this Argonaut can work with the filter system, it would be drastically SMARTER for 95% of photographers and videographers, than the high danger Rebreathers --such as what killed Wes Skiles....not to mention the cost of these Rebreathers and the training for them, would be enough to dive all over the world, for a very long time, with the Argonaut

The short answer is: yes. I do have a design and a plan on how to add a diffuser. As Nemrod says, it is important to reduce (or affect the least possible) the flow resistance, but I do have a design in mind that will accomplish bubble diffusion with very minimal flow resistance.

I am not ready to give much more details than that. It is just going to take time to make some prototypes and test them. I have already done some of the engineering calculations behind my design. Detail drawings may follow, but some of it depend on what I can put together for my prototype.

Sometimes prototypes is the hardest part since I have to use available materials. The other side of the coin is that using available materials can have advantages on final production cost.

At the moment there is more pressure to finish my design for the mouthpiece/ with a closing valve. The mouthpiece plug works great with the curve mouthpiece and it does everything I need, but many divers would like to close the mouthpiece before they remove it from their mouth.

The need for a diffuser is not as pressing (as Nemrod also mentioned) due to the position of the exhaust bubbles, but I am fairly confident that I can do it without affecting resistance much. But like everything in life... there will always be some trade-offs in such design: maintenance (keeping the diffuser clean), etc. are just a some of the considerations.

Again, stay tuned, but don't hold your breath (pun intended).

If I have a chance, I may have a prototype this summer.

 

[danvolker]

The short answer is: yes. I do have a design and a plan on how to add a diffuser. As Nemrod says, it is important to reduce (or affect the least possible) the flow resistance, but I do have a design in mind that will accomplish bubble diffusion with very minimal flow resistance.

I am not ready to give much more details than that. It is just going to take time to make some prototypes and test them. I have already done some of the engineering calculations behind my design. Detail drawings may follow, but some of it depend on what I can put together for my prototype.

Sometimes prototypes is the hardest part since I have to use available materials. The other side of the coin is that using available materials can have advantages on final production cost.

At the moment there is more pressure to finish my design for the mouthpiece/ with a closing valve. The mouthpiece plug works great with the curve mouthpiece and it does everything I need, but many divers would like to close the mouthpiece before they remove it from their mouth.

The need for a diffuser is not as pressing (as Nemrod also mentioned) due to the position of the exhaust bubbles, but I am fairly confident that I can do it without affecting resistance much. But like everything in life... there will always be some trade-offs in such design: maintenance (keeping the diffuser clean), etc. are just a some of the considerations.

Again, stay tuned, but don't hold your breath (pun intended).

If I have a chance, I may have a prototype this summer.

Well that is excellent News...Consider me in line for this when it comes out !!!

 

[jacked_72]

With regard to mouthpieces (I'm sure its been asked before), but why not reproduce the Hope-Page mouthpiece or some variant? I believe that it will take a modern replacement mouthpiece. And if not that, why not cast something like it in a hard plastic or bakelite into which wagon wheels would fit or on which you could mount a modern mouthpiece? Will all the fabricating that Luis and Bryan seem to be doing, I would think that a HP mouthpiece wouldn't be too difficult. Of course, I've never tried or priced such a thing and it may be just too expensive.

 

[herman]

It's a little more complicated than that. One of the PITAs of a DH are freeflows at the surface, plugging the mouthpiece prevents that, The Hope Page while a good mouthpiece does nothing to stop freeflows. The goal of the new MP is to allow the diver to close off the mouthpiece (like some rebreather mouthpieces do) to prevent the freeflow with the added benefit of keeping water out of the system. Rebreather MPs are expensive and tend to be bulky so they are not a good fit for DH use plus to keep cost down, the design would need to use the current hoses. You are correct, a simple HP style mp that used modern mouthpieces would be fairly easy to do but it has the same issues as the rest of the DH mouthpieces so why recreate something that does not really solve the main problem.

 

[jacked_72]

Thanks Herman. I'm sure there was some reason, but I suppose all the vintage mouthpieces must have the same problem of freeflow, whether reproductions or not. I've seen the little block of rubber sold by VDH to wedge in the mouthpiece a the surface and didn't realize that was even an issue since I don't dive a lot with double hoses. I suppose someone has thought of using some sort of sealing vane, like a predive/dive switch. If you could put one so it blocks off the right side, I suppose that could work, but as you said, it adds to the size of the mouthpiece and would necessarily restrict some flow. I haven't even seen a rebreather up close, so I have no idea what those mouthpieces look like.

Herman, I didn't mean to leave you out of the list of fabricators. I'm still using my Conshelf first stage packing tool that I got from you a few years ago. Used it last night, as a matter of fact.

 

[herman]

A DH is going to freeflow at the surface if you get into the right position due to it's design, the single major flaw in it's design IMO but there is little you can do to prevent it- design wise. Add to that, all the upgrades that have been made and many of us tuning the regs to fairly high performance levels, freeflows become more of an issue. Proper technique reduces them a lot but having them prevented without having to be so vigilant would be nice. The plug does a good job but it's not as elegant of a solution as we would like so the next logical step is designing a mouthpiece that does the job of the plug but with a lot more elegance.

By the way, the tool also works on the Argonuat.