Problems keeping knees bent.

[jim2386]

Assuming that you want to achieve the cave diver's posture (which actually works fine in open water diving -- why DO people want to swim fast, anyway?) QUOTE]

+1 Unless I'm being run down by a shark

 

[vintagediver]

Yeah but, your double hose regulator doesn't breath well in that position.

 

[Mattleycrue76]

Dropping your knees is often a sign that you're head heavy. Although this seems counter intuitive at first it's because your body is trying to compensate for the fact that your feet will become floaty when you go horizontal. This is really common with drysuit/doubles combinations. Try moving weight around on your body/rig until you can get horizontal and stop moving completely without rotating head or feet down. Once you have that down learning to frog kick properly will be much easier.

Concerning flutter vs. frog kick: In my mind while you can no doubt go faster in split fins or even better AL slingshots (damn those things are fast!) and a flutter kick, there is no doubt that a proper frog kick is more efficient. Just look at the muscle groups you're employing for each and you'll see why. The only time I ever swim fast is when it's into strong current (even then it's only fast relative to the water) and in those situations a nice deliberate frog kick (not modified frog kick)will outperform a flutter kick every time in regards to exersion and air consumption never mind silting.

 

[Deefstes]

What is the "modified" frog kick? Is that the cave diver's frog kick?

This is actually something else I've been curious about. What is the problem with the "unmodified" frog kick? Does it cause more silting up? Doesn't it still direct thrush backwards?

 

[Blackwood]

Modified Frog mainly comes from the ankles. It's more of a flick than a kick,

 

[TSandM]

Modified frog kick is a very small, sculling kick from the ankles, used where passage is too narrow to permit the range of a full frog kick.

The only time I ever swim fast is when it's into strong current (even then it's only fast relative to the water) and in those situations a nice deliberate frog kick (not modified frog kick)will outperform a flutter kick every time in regards to exersion and air consumption never mind silting.

One of the things David Rhea taught me in Cave 2 was that frog kick is NOT a good kick into flow (or current). This is because the "glide" phase of the kick is steadily decelerating (or even reversing) you. Flutter is a much better kick in those conditions, because there is a continuous provision of forward propulsive force. I have found that to be very true; I can easily outswim my buddies into flow or current, if they are using the frog kick and I am using flutter.

 

[Sas]

I see another diver hovering for a photograph.

I was doing a safety stop I believe

That's just the position I fall into naturally when not moving (well it seems so given I am nearly always in that position in photographs!), not sure why but I usually use frog kicking and I like to be very close to the bottom so I guess given I am nearly always in that I just fall back into that position even when not needed. I feel a bit weird not in this position, well any position that puts my legs lower than my torso and head, for some reason.

 

[RJP]

Assuming that you want to achieve the cave diver's posture (which actually works fine in open water diving -- why DO people want to swim fast, anyway?)

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast."

 

[Sas]

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast."

I want to be smooth and slow though :shocked2:

Actually last night I realised I wasn't even kicking, just letting the current (which was probably 0.001 of a knot) carry me around, how lazy is that. I didn't cover much distance

 

[FireInMyBones]

For single tank diving, I find moving my tank up a little (HP120) helps.

For doubles, I practice on the floor...

Flutter versus frog, situationally dependent. I dive lakes with silty bottoms. If I am by the deep wall away from the bottom: flutter. If I am near the bottom: frog/ modified flutter.