Problems keeping knees bent.

[kanonfodr]

Well, I don't know what you were doing with this student, but having dived with you, I will tell you that, by MY standards, you swim fast!

I think it's a low-viz diver thing. I was diving with a lady from Oregon this past weekend and while I make no effort whatsoever to set speed records, she was always poking along behind me. It didn't bother me much, I just had to be conscious about slowing down or waiting for her.

In contrast, the rest of our group left us in the bubble trails right from the start. Freakin' warm water divers...

Peace,
Greg

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Our one dive together had a tentative plan to go both farther and deeper than is typical for that location. I probably didn't explain properly but there is so much to find/see at that planned "oasis" location that I like to spend most of my time/air there. If the plan is to dive the closer, shallower and much larger reef, there is a different pace.

That said, other than when I am shooting pictures at some "oasis" I am not arguing that my "personal" slowest pace is most likely fast by your measure. Working as a guide, each employer often has a different "customer friendly pace range" they expect. My student did a 59 minute dive to max depth 39' with 3 pretty long swim reciprocal navigations (his gf is really blonde so he really needs to navigate well!).

Ya know; reading the OP again perhaps the desire to over-bend is due to split fins?

 

[Deefstes]

snorkeler body position
...
formula 1 body position

Sorry if I'm being a dunce but would you mind elaborating on these two terms? I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by them.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

When snorkeling we have the head as the highest point, the fins/legs as the lowest point. Part of the thrust is directed up and the chest is a wing in take off position. In snorkeler body position, a diver rototills across sand leaving a cloud and must dive very negatively buoyant to not ascend. When they stop they must quickly hit the inflator to get neutral, and then they sawtooth up and down when motion resumes until they have gotten negative enough to calmly rototill again. Flapping arms like wings is also often part of the drill.

A Formula 1 race car has the front low and the "fin" high. Forward momentum actually creates downforce helping counteract lung lift from inhalation. Fins slightly higher keeps bottom disturbance at a minimum. You can actually dive slightly positive and then when you stop, a good exhale keeps you in control.

 

[Deefstes]

Aha, thanks that makes sense.

Now, back to the issue of the knees. Here's a picture of my typical posture. My legs sometimes still drops lower (snorkeling position) but I seem to manage to sort that out these days.

Here's the position I'd like to have:

Like the OP says, when I concentrate on getting into this position it feels unnatural. I like TSandM's suggestion to practice and obtain some muscle memory on the floor. I think something that often happens when I try to swim in this position is that I bend at the waist (which wouldn't be possible when lying on the floor).

I realise that you probably lose some kick efficiency in this position but I don't think you need particularly efficient kicks when you're just trying to take a "gentle stroll" around the reef. The reason I'd like to achieve this position is because I think it makes both the back kick and the helicopter kick possible.

 

[vladimir]

The reason I'd like to achieve this position is because I think it makes both the back kick and the helicopter kick possible.

Couldn't you just assume the position just before you helicopter or back kick? Or do you need to always be poised in anticipation of the sudden need to spin?

 

[rab1412000]

pushing your hands/arms in front of you will help keep you keep the horizontal position.
could drastically aide your trim and bent knee issues.

well just my 2psi

 

[Deefstes]

Couldn't you just assume the position just before you helicopter or back kick? Or do you need to always be poised in anticipation of the sudden need to spin?

LOL. No sure, I could assume the position just before doing helicopter or back-kick. But in order to do that I have to be able to assume the position properly and I'm not sure I'm doing it right.

 

[TSandM]

Well, when I look at the two pictures, I see two different things . . . I see a diver actively swimming, using a flutter kick which appears to be using the leg from the knee down (which is fine) and I see another diver hovering for a photograph. If the second diver were flutter-kicking, I think you'd see a phase of the kick where he would look something like you, although I don't think most of us extend the knee quite that far with the flutter.

The posture with the knees constantly bent is during the use of the frog kick.

 

[Herk_Man]

I think the other issue here is how you are trimmed. Where your feet are in relation to the rest of your body is going to determine your "center of buoyancy" (to borrow from aerodynamics). It sounds to me like your weight right now is distributed in a way that keeps you horizontal when your legs are extended. So when you bend your knees, your "balance" changes and you start to rotate one way or the other (depending on whether your fins/feet are negatively or positively buoyant.)

So if you truly need to swim with your legs bent (and you need to determine if you really require this for the type of diving you do) then you are going to need to shift how your weights are distributed. Either moving some up higher or possibly employing some ankle weights. I'd recommend getting in a controlled environment and experimenting with various configurations.