Primary Light OVER long hose, right?

[Reg Braithwaite]

The advice to get out and dive is remarkably useful in July. However, it is just about December in Ontario, so I won't be in open water with an experienced DIR practitioner until next Spring at the earliest. And Fundies will not follow for some time after that.

In the mean time, consider the dives I will do next Spring *before* fundies. What if my buddy has an OOG? That seems like a terrible time to explain that although I have a long hose and a light, I can't donate without creating a major tangle of cords because I'm waiting for Dan MacKay to show me how to donate my reg.

The optimal situation obviously is to live in a warm place, surrounded by mentors, and whenever I have a question, we just jump in the water and figure it out. But I'll confess: I'm not dedicated enough to DIR to move

 

[rainman_02]

Ah, this brings up another 'favorite' answer in the DIR forum:

Don't dive gear that you don't know how to use.



A better way of saying it though would be: Do you need the can light for the dives you're doing? If no, leave it...that way your reg donation is unhindered.

If you do, well, there's nothing wrong with diving the OW DIR rig (if you're diving a single), just use a 40" LP hose for the primary, and the 22" LP hose for the bungied backup. This would be my primary reccomendation to you...get a 40" LP hose for your primary first stage.

If it's good enough for GI3...

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Don't dive gear that you don't know how to use.

The beauty of this advice is that it equates to "Don't dive until you find a DIR mentor to take you diving," because until then, what gear do I know how to use? And how can I know what I know and don't know?

Any ways, one of the purposes of this forum is to allow non-DIR people to ask DIR people to explain DIR practice. How to do a modified S drill and how to do an s drill are both DIR practices, as is the question of how to/how not to learn, so this is all welcome information.

 

[MonkSeal]

And how can I know what I know and don't know?

The answers is as simple as possible: Take a class first. There are 60 GUE instructors and it's much easier to organize fundies class then in the old days when there were some 20 of them.

Any ways, one of the purposes of this forum is to allow non-DIR people to ask DIR people to explain DIR practice. How to do a modified S drill and how to do an s drill are both DIR practices, as is the question of how to/how not to learn, so this is all welcome information.

You're right about purpose but sometimes it's hard to explain how something should be executed. And only if you add overall performance to that (bouyancy, trim, awarness) you'll get right picture of things to be done. IMO this can be done only in water. Also, when describing procedures some little (but important things) can be forgotten simply because one don't think about them when executing procedure because they are "second nature".

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

The answers is as simple as possible: Take a class first.

You know, I've slept on it and I think I need to re-evaluate my training goal for this Winter. As I mentioned above, I like to train, I like to practice, and I like to work things out for myself. The thought of walking into an intense four or five day course with 12+ hours of learning per day with no preparation does not thrill me in the least.

But DIR is a holistic approach. It may be wrong for me to want to learn the skills without embracing the way DIR is supposed to be taught. At a fundamental level, I suspect that some people are cut out for being taught in a didactic environment and some are not. I need to evaluate whether I am a good candidate for DIR diving. It might simply be that the kind of person who learns through curiosity, experimentation and investigation is not the right person for DIR.

In any event, there is nothing actionable for me here. There can be 60 or 600 instructors, but there are no Ontario classes until next May at the earliest, so I need not make any final decision about this for now. But thanks to everyone in this forum for your guidance and patience, it may turn out to be much more helpfull than I could have foreseen.

 

[MonkSeal]

It might simply be that the kind of person who learns through curiosity, experimentation and investigation is not the right person for DIR.

You couldn't be more wrong with this assumption. This sentence implies that DIR divers are not curious and that they don't experiment and investigate. How wrong ... It's totaly oposite ...

There can be 60 or 600 instructors, but there are no Ontario classes until next May at the earliest, so I need not make any final decision about this for now.

You can always contact any near-by instructor and set-up class in your area. Instructor will come and candidates will split his/her travel and accomodation costs (which is usually less then to travel to instructor's location except if you're lucky to have local one). Of course, this can be done if you find several people willing to attend the class. Which BTW applies to already scheduled classes - there's no warranty that scheduled class will be conducted if there's not enough candidates.

 

[Rick Inman]

Hunter, how does your buddy's method keep from shining in the OOG diver's eyes when he has the reg in his left hand?

That be me.

This is for the mod-s only, so the reg is not handed off, but remains in the left hand as the hose is extended to display that it is free and clear (I know you know this. Just being clear for all). So the light in the eyes is not an issue, it's just controlled and pointed down as it would any time you are face to face.

One day I was sitting on my truck bed with my doubles on, playing with my light and long hose, when I found the reg and hose in the mod-s position and I had never shifted the light from one hand to another and back. Huh? How had I done that? So, I repeated the move a few times. I thought, this can't be right. It's too easy. I could present and stow the reg without shifting the light. If this was a good way to do it, someone else would have thought of it by now and they would teach it (and I am, in fact sure that others are. I have just never seen it).

When my buddy (fundies grad) showed up, I demonstrated the move. What's wrong with this? I asked him. He couldn't find anything.

I'm headed out to go diving, so I'll have my buddy video me doing the mod-s and I'll post it tonight. I'm sure either the flaw will be pointed out, or else several people will say, yeah dude, that's how we already do it .

 

[williama]

Good stuff here on this OVER/UNDER light cord thing. I learned UNDER in GUE Cave 1/2(2000/2001) and have hundreds of dives that way. Previuosly, I learned wrapping the cord in my right hand and holding the light in my right hand.

Going diving with a couple of recent DIR-F divers has been fun as they are showing me the recent changes and helping me work through them so that we are on the same page before we do more complex diving. I would like to match my team in all aspects but it certainly has been difficult to unlearn what I was doing before. I just need more in water time with a team that's aware I am making that transition and they should stop and point it out when I go back to my old ways.

Reg:
I also learn through investigation and experimentation. That's how I started learning about DIR. Before/During/after training I had plenty of questions and tried different things which just further reinforced why DIR worked out better for me. I still do that to this day.

Please continue to ask questions and keep in mind that this us an open forum. Delivery methods and messages will vary

 

[johnkendall]

You know, I've slept on it and I think I need to re-evaluate my training goal for this Winter. As I mentioned above, I like to train, I like to practice, and I like to work things out for myself. The thought of walking into an intense four or five day course with 12+ hours of learning per day with no preparation does not thrill me in the least.

But DIR is a holistic approach. It may be wrong for me to want to learn the skills without embracing the way DIR is supposed to be taught. At a fundamental level, I suspect that some people are cut out for being taught in a didactic environment and some are not. I need to evaluate whether I am a good candidate for DIR diving. It might simply be that the kind of person who learns through curiosity, experimentation and investigation is not the right person for DIR.

In any event, there is nothing actionable for me here. There can be 60 or 600 instructors, but there are no Ontario classes until next May at the earliest, so I need not make any final decision about this for now. But thanks to everyone in this forum for your guidance and patience, it may turn out to be much more helpfull than I could have foreseen.

Hi Reg,

There is nothing wrong with trying things out. There are problems however if you have worked something out that is different to the way it is taught in a class. When I took fundamentals (many years ago) I had worked out how to do all of the drills in advance, and then had a really hard time on the class, as I had missed all the important areas, and just concentrated on the bits I thought mattered.

I have had people come and take classes who had practiced things that they had seen on internet videos, but who I have not been able to pass because the videos they learnt from were wrong, and so the students had gained bad muscle memory.

However you are also right in pointing out that you want to be able to give gas to an OOA diver in an emergancy.

Here is the sequence:

Donate gas (light in left hand, reg in right hand)
Give OK signals
Once settled, move the light around the long hose, and return in to the left hand
move the long hose from behind the canister and wing so the whole hose is deployed
exit

For those who are looking at the Mod-S, it's a red herring. Either hand the reg to a team mate, or just move the light around. Yes you can do a Mod-S by passing the reg under the light cord into the left hand, but the reason it's not talked about is because you will never need to do this on a real dive.

HTH

John

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

You couldn't be more wrong with this assumption. This sentence implies that DIR divers are not curious and that they don't experiment and investigate. How wrong ... It's totaly oposite ...

I am not qualified to make any statement about what DIR is, or what DIR divers do. If my statement implied this, I apologize. I was merely stating that given my personality and given the very consistent advice to sit back and wait until I receive instruction, I feel like I may not be the right person for DIR, which is a statement about me, not about DIR, and especially not about whether DIR would benefit me or not. I have until next Spring to make a final decision, so it's no big deal.

You can always contact any near-by instructor and set-up class in your area.

I do not believe that GUE offers an ice diving fundamentals course. Well, it's not ice diving season yet, but at this point I do not believe that any of the instructors from any of the agencies offer open water dives in Ontario with the exception of actual ice diving courses.

There is an instructor in my area, and he is very, very highly recommended. His name is Dan MacKay, and he is the author of "Dress for Success." He has a very busy training schedule: The first fundamentals courses in Ontario are offered in May 2009.

The alternative for those with time and money available is to travel to a warmer place to take the course. That's not an option I am going to pursue for various reasons.

any ways, I'm hijacking my own thread here. thanks everyone for all of the advice. cheers...