Preventing freeze free flow?

[rstofer]

As I assume that your regulator is tuned properly (have this checked at the LDS), I would not recommend lowering the IP on the regulator. I would simply refrain from diving in cold-water with the regulator you have. This may sound a bit harsh, but I support utilizing the correct gear for the job. Nothing against your reg (I'm not familiar with this particular model), but you can't make a deep diving reg out of a basic model and you can't make a dependable cold-water reg out of one that's not designed for this purpose. There are no short-cuts when it comes to diving safety.

^^^ This is the right answer ^^^

There are cold water regulators and there are warm water regulators and all the foolishness of trying to control air flow so a warm water regulator doesn't freeze just doesn't make any sense. What if a buddy really NEEDS to breathe off your regulator? What if you really NEED to swim against a current?

Oceanic comes right out and says that none of their piston regs are to be used below 50 deg F. The Oceanic CDX5 and FDX10 first stages are sealed diaphragm and recommended for cold water. The Delta 4/FDX10 setup should be just fine - it was selected by the Coast Guard as their cold water regulator of choice. On their website, Aqualung has a snowflake icon next to each regulator that is suitable for cold water. Scubapro Mk17/G250V is highly regarded for cold water.

The idea is to have the right equipment for the dive. Attempts to use unsuitable equipment are just plain unsafe!

Richard

 

[elan]

Do not completely mislead the guy, AT400 first stage is a sealed diaphragm and works fine in cold water. I might be wrong but so far I have figured out that it is in fact Oceanic CDX5

His second stage might cause the issue. Just as it did in mine.

It means that he might need just to put an appropriate second stage on it. Just like combination MK17/S600 does not work well in cold water below 40F. Swap the second stage for G250 and you are good to go.


We have the right temperature now (around 36F) Over the next couple of weeks I will try to play with my AT400 Pro and will try to switch the second stage and will post the result.

 

[DCBC]

Do not completely mislead the guy, AT400 first stage is a sealed diaphragm and works fine in cold water.

Nobody is trying to mislead anyone Elan. If this regulator is set-up properly and it free-flows, you just can't use it in cold-water.

There is an operational envelope for everything. This includes equipment and individuals. With individuals, this can be mitigated by training, experience and equipment used. With equipment, performance is limited by design and maintenance. Safety depends upon diving "within the envelope."

I'm not saying anything against the performance of this regulator, but if it has been maintained properly, clearly its operational envelope doesn't extend to water as cold as this.

I've buddy breathed my Apeks in 30 degrees F water trying to get it to freeze (unsuccessfully). One would conclude that this reg is designed for cold-water, regardless of what the manufacturer may or may not claim. The proof is in the doing.

 

[elan]

Nobody is trying to mislead anyone Elan. If this regulator is set-up properly and it free-flows, you just can't use it in cold-water.

It's not made of a single piece so he does not have to disqualify the whole setup, this is what I meant by saying do not mislead completely. Just like in my example the fact that MK17/S600 free flows does not mean the MK17 has to be ditched

 

[DCBC]

It's not made of a single piece so he does not have to disqualify the whole setup, this is what I meant by saying do not mislead completely. Just like in my example the fact that MK17/S600 free flows does not mean the MK17 has to be ditched

Absolutely. I'm not familiar enough with the AT400 to comment on its performance envelope in cold water. Perhaps another 2nd stage may solve the problem. Either way, left as is, I wouldn't trust it in cold water.

 

[elan]

Absolutely. I'm not familiar enough with the AT400 to comment on its performance envelope in cold water. Perhaps another 2nd stage may solve the problem. Either way, left as is, I wouldn't trust it in cold water.

Absolutely agree with you.

 

[halocline]

^^^ This is the right answer ^^^

There are cold water regulators and there are warm water regulators and all the foolishness of trying to control air flow so a warm water regulator doesn't freeze just doesn't make any sense. What if a buddy really NEEDS to breathe off your regulator? What if you really NEED to swim against a current?

Oceanic comes right out and says that none of their piston regs are to be used below 50 deg F. The Oceanic CDX5 and FDX10 first stages are sealed diaphragm and recommended for cold water. The Delta 4/FDX10 setup should be just fine - it was selected by the Coast Guard as their cold water regulator of choice. On their website, Aqualung has a snowflake icon next to each regulator that is suitable for cold water. Scubapro Mk17/G250V is highly regarded for cold water.

The idea is to have the right equipment for the dive. Attempts to use unsuitable equipment are just plain unsafe!

Richard

Nice try, too bad the guy is not talking about a piston regulator...

 

[rstofer]

Nice try, too bad the guy is not talking about a piston regulator...

I'm aware that the problem, in this case, manifests itself in the second stage. But I don't know anything about the first stage either. For all I know, it's perfect. Or, once the second stage issue is resolved there becomes a new first stage problem. Read and accept as gospel the manufacturer's recommendations - unless they don't make any. Then find a manufacturer that does.

And yes, cold water second stages will usually have metal air barrels and even heating fins at the hose connection. The first stage might also have heating fins.

All I was trying to point out is that there are regulators that are unsuitable (and this one has PROVEN to be unsuitable) and there are some that will work well. As to brand and nomenclature, I only know of 2 (maybe 3 if I include the Dive Rite Hurricane). But there are many others.

The real point is to get the right gear for the dive. Trying to take little sippy breaths is not a solution.

Richard

 

[j yaeger]

5th annual newyears eve dive in the st. lawrence river for us.....
...and we all dive wet......34* 45 min.s
we also ice dive wet...preparation and experience makes it a blast!
great advice on the freeflows-easy breaths!!!!
i can still use a aqua lung calypso plastic body by breathing slow and easy through the ice!
sp metal works also...i used that newyears day...
enjoy the clear water!!...but bring some warm with you to thaw out your bootie zips
just saying.....
have fun
yaeg

 

[Greendiver]

I appreciate all of the replies and information.

The purpose of my question is/was simply to find out if there was anything I could do to aid or prevent freezing issues and I think for the most part that has been covered.

This regulator functioned great at 37 but 4-5 degrees can be huge and I realize that. Trying to figure out what and why this occurred can only make me a better diver. Like I said (and has been suggested rightfully so), this reg set AS IS would not be taken on a cold deeper dive. An interesting thing I just remembered is that it had its annual performed in between these two dives...

And yes, preparation makes or breaks it. Priming my wetsuit makes it so only my face feels any sort of temp shock when hitting the water, a good fitting wetsuit helps.

Thanks again for all of the input!