President Trump Pulls U.S. Out of the Paris Climate Accord

[Joneill]

The PCA is a start. More needed to be done. The US could have stayed in and become a leader. Instead we'll let China and India take the lead. Those new solar panels and wind turbines that will power Europe and Asia will be built in China. And the US will buy them too. So much for America First.

Do you really think the solar panels and wind turbines would have been built here if we had stayed in?

I'd bet you that if we could make that stuff cheaper (or, possibly, with some technical advantage - though cost rules) than anyone else that others would buy from us, regardless of whether we are in or out of the PCA. If they didn't, it would just reinforce the unfair politics in all of this...

 

[kelemvor]

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. China is not going to do a damn thing that does not directly benefit them economically or militarily.

Seems like there's at least one thing we could stand to learn from the Chinese.

 

[deeper thoughts]

Something i came across lol

 

[Storker]

Folks should take a couple of minutes and read this. Really good article.

Folks should take a few hours and read this. Really good book.

Merchants of Doubt - Home

 

[Storker]

So you are in favor of a government taking away your individual rights? .

I most certainly am. Unlimited individual rights are incompatible with a civilized society. Your "right" to take whatever you want, to beat up someone who has insulted you, to refrain from funding schools for other people's children, to kill someone who has done you wrong or to buy a 20mm machine cannon just because you want one are already taken away from you.

Are you a-ok with a factory upstream from you dumping their crap directly in the river you swim and fish in, or do you think they should be subject to regulations that keep the river reasonably clean? If the latter, you, too, are in favor of governmentally imposed regulations and restrictions.

A civilized society must always balance individual interests against common interests.

 

[kelemvor]

buy a 20mm machine cannon just because you want one are already taken away from you.

That is indeed a problem that a number of people have been working on correcting. The point in the 2nd amendment is for citizens to be able to protect themselves from their government should the need arise. If the government can own 20mm machine cannons and the citizens cannot then there is a problem.

 

[Caveeagle]

I most certainly am. Unlimited individual rights are incompatible with a civilized society. Your "right" to take whatever you want, to beat up someone who has insulted you, to refrain from funding schools for other people's children, to kill someone who has done you wrong or to buy a 20mm machine cannon just because you want one are already taken away from you.

Are you a-ok with a factory upstream from you dumping their crap directly in the river you swim and fish in, or do you think they should be subject to regulations that keep the river reasonably clean? If the latter, you, too, are in favor of governmentally imposed regulations and restrictions.

A civilized society must always balance individual interests against common interests.

OK.. And I am sure that those are all the "rights" that are relevant to this conversation. I should have clarified "Constitutional Rights", so you would not have been confused by my comment.

Re: funding schools?? wow.. just a tad off topic.. But I have no problem funding schools. But a kool-aid drinking loyalty to a failing public school system is just ridiculous. Once again, progressive idealism may "sound" good, but does not stand up to real world application. I have paid my taxes without any complaints, even though I ended up paying twice so that my kids could get a quality education OUTSIDE of the public school system. *That's not to say you can't get a quality education in a public school.. Just that my family decided on an alternate path for our kids. I wonder if you @Storker support my rights to do that?

And.. a "20mm machine cannon" would be totally inappropriate for my current needs.

 

[Storker]

Ok... So having "rights" you personally don't value very highly taken away is just fine?

That's not very principled.

 

[Caveeagle]

Ok... So having "rights" you personally don't value very highly taken away is just fine?

That's not very principled.

Not sure which "rights" you are talking about? Just because I did not respond to every silly point in your earlier post...? I value clean water and the environment.. But because I challenge our government's approach to that.. you accuse me of not caring? ..how obtuse..

I do have Constitutionally guaranteed rights that you seem to specifically oppose by making silly comments like "20mm machine cannon". You seem to be incapable of surfacing a rational point of view without resorting to ridiculous exaggeration. I think that demonstrates how weak your argument really is.

 

[Storker]

I do have Constitutionally guaranteed rights [...]

Ah. There's my mistake. I forgot that some of you USians have a religious attitude towards your constitution, so I tried to engage in a rational, principled discussion.

My bad.