Preparing for full cave

[DA Aquamaster]

One of the major issues and one of the major reasons for going slow is simply task loading while in the course, and the impact that has on your ability to focus on the cave specific skills and then retain them over the long term.

If you are fully involved just trying to master a new configuration, buoyancy or frog kicking, you are not going to have enough bandwidth available to learn, acquire and think about the skills you are learning. Worst case, you actually perform well enough to pass the class, but miss critical points or nuances of the training are designed to keep you alive. Best case you fail miserably, go practice for another year and then repeat the class and pass it later.

Get proficient in the water, then get proficient in doubles, get proficient with the other various fundamental technical diving skills, then consider cave classes.

Personally, I did technical deep and wreck diving for about 10 years before showing up for combined cavern and Intro courses and was highly proficient in doubles, frogkicks, etc, before starting the course. At the end of the course the instructor advised I was solid at that level and ready for full cave - but I just didn't see the point. I had lots to see and learn at the intro level and I wasn't losing much waiting a year or so to get another 50-60 cave dives at the intro level before going farther.

Slow down. There is no upside to pushing it.

I actually have had a different instructor for cavern and intro, this thread is out of hand. People criticizing me for wanting proper training. Only one person has answered my question. I am done with this thread.

No offense, but if you are going to do technical diving you need to develop a little thicker skin.
It's serious business with serious consequences and your actions have potential consequences on others - whether it is your failures, skills deficinecies, weaknessness or poor judgment creating a threat to the team, or whether it's just your senseless death resulting in a tragic cave closure - and people will (and should) question your basic assumpotions and alledged skill levels.

In most technical forums you are in effect playing in traffic so you need to be a big boy and deal with it.

 

[CaveMD]

I have a slightly different and sometimes less popular view point.


I enjoy learning and don't really care how many "c-cards"(worthless pieces of plastic that mean nothing outside of getting you the gas you want) I have. The mechanics and physiology of diving is personally interesting to me and I always wanted to learn more. I started using a backplate and wing right when I finished OW, I took tdi nitrox with 7 dives, started using doubles at dive 9, started AN/DP with 23 dives. About 10 months after my OW course I completed Helitrox and then SDI Solo with around 110 total dives, almost all of it in double steels and a dry suit. I then waited 6 months while doing 60-70 more dives in double steel's and dry suit before doing cavern/intro/full cave over a 1 month period, then Sidemount/stage cave. After completing full cave in july I have done 30 cave dives in 12 different caves including those in my SM/stage course. I have many good friends much more experienced than myself as mentors and some absolutely great instructors(I avoid taking the same instructor twice because I feel like I learn more by seeing multiple perspectives) that were willing to evaluate the diver in lieu of the log book.

I mention the above to preface my opinion. Training rate and whats too fast is entirely relative to how motivated, interested, and capable the individual is. The #1 rule is to not exceed YOUR comfort limits. Some people believe there is only one way to do something and thats their way. The zero to hero is not necessarily the best but it's not necessarily bad either. Someone with no technical experience at all should not be even considering going through full cave without a few months in between. If you have the basic's and your buoyancy in check before you show up for cavern along with the right mindset, there is no problem going straight through. Cave diving is not THAT complicated. The other person that has no business going straight through is the individual doing it just to get the card and then doesn't plan on getting in the water again for months after finishing the course. As someone else stated before, doing a course and then not using those skills immediately afterwards is a good way to lose them. I don't know you or your training/diving history so I can't speak to which if any of the above you share verisimilitude with.

I did 30 cave dives in the first 2 months after finishing full cave, many of those with people much more experienced than myself. I enjoy it a great deal and have zero regrets at the rate of my training. But always remember every dive is a learning opportunity.

 

[ucfdiver]

I have a slightly different and sometimes less popular view point.


I enjoy learning and don't really care how many "c-cards"(worthless pieces of plastic that mean nothing outside of getting you the gas you want) I have. The mechanics and physiology of diving is personally interesting to me and I always wanted to learn more. I started using a backplate and wing right when I finished OW, I took tdi nitrox with 7 dives, started using doubles at dive 9, started AN/DP with 23 dives. About 10 months after my OW course I completed Helitrox and then SDI Solo with around 110 total dives, almost all of it in double steels and a dry suit. I then waited 6 months while doing 60-70 more dives in double steel's and dry suit before doing cavern/intro/full cave over a 1 month period, then Sidemount/stage cave. After completing full cave in july I have done 30 cave dives in 12 different caves including those in my SM/stage course. I have many good friends much more experienced than myself as mentors and some absolutely great instructors(I avoid taking the same instructor twice because I feel like I learn more by seeing multiple perspectives) that were willing to evaluate the diver in lieu of the log book.

I mention the above to preface my opinion. Training rate and whats too fast is entirely relative to how motivated, interested, and capable the individual is. The #1 rule is to not exceed YOUR comfort limits. Some people believe there is only one way to do something and thats their way. The zero to hero is not necessarily the best but it's not necessarily bad either. Someone with no technical experience at all should not be even considering going through full cave without a few months in between. If you have the basic's and your buoyancy in check before you show up for cavern along with the right mindset, there is no problem going straight through. Cave diving is not THAT complicated. The other person that has no business going straight through is the individual doing it just to get the card and then doesn't plan on getting in the water again for months after finishing the course. As someone else stated before, doing a course and then not using those skills immediately afterwards is a good way to lose them. I don't know you or your training/diving history so I can't speak to which if any of the above you share verisimilitude with.

I did 30 cave dives in the first 2 months after finishing full cave, many of those with people much more experienced than myself. I enjoy it a great deal and have zero regrets at the rate of my training. But always remember every dive is a learning opportunity.

It might be a good idea to state that you're not much beyond those first 30 cave dives-- just to give everyone reading perspective.

 

[CaveMD]

It might be a good idea to state that you're not much beyond those first 30 cave dives-- just to give everyone reading perspective.

It might be an equally good idea to state that you didn't read a post before typing a knee jerk reaction.

.......


After completing full cave in july I have done 30 cave dives in 12 different caves including those in my SM/stage course. I have many good friends much more experienced than myself as mentors and some absolutely great instructors(I avoid taking the same instructor twice because I feel like I learn more by seeing multiple perspectives) that were willing to evaluate the diver in lieu of the log book.

......

I did 30 cave dives in the first 2 months after finishing full cave, many of those with people much more experienced than myself. I enjoy it a great deal and have zero regrets at the rate of my training. But always remember every dive is a learning opportunity.

 

[sskasser]

Damn, I love it here at The Deco Stop! It's like old times! Pile onto that newcomer and snuff the enthusiasm out of him before it spreads! We wouldn't want people enjoying this stuff!

Jxh2297 ... these guys are concerned, and rightly so (and for the most part, really do know their ****). Lots of idiots out there, and it only takes a couple to get dive sites closed. It sucks for all of us when that happens. Come back and read their comments after you've been fully cave certified for a couple of years and I guarantee you'll be in agreement with many of them. And as someone mentioned...you'll find that cave and tech divers are not exactly high up on the sensitivity scale. Kinda like Marine drill instructors...the abuse just shows they care

In the meantime....

To answer your question, have spot-on bouyancy and awareness skills in the exact rig you'll be diving for class. You don't want to be figuring out any new piece of kit while learning 15 ways to die in a cave. Enjoy the classes, take your time, and soak up all the wonder that is this fantastic sport we are privileged to enjoy.

 

[Jxh2297]

I understand people die in caves and mistakes lead to death. I agree I feel like I am ready for the course. I always stay within my training limits, turning 1/6 on the main line, above 130 on recreational, etc. I always respect the boundaries and my training level

 

[sskasser]

I understand people die in caves and mistakes lead to death. I agree I feel like I am ready for the course. I always stay within my training limits, turning 1/6 on the main line, above 130 on recreational, etc. I always respect the boundaries and my training level

Sounds great, enjoy the class!

See ya in the caves!

 

[TSandM]

At least from my experience, the training beyond basic cave is overwhelmingly about awareness. You should have mastered good buoyancy and trim, propulsion techniques and line running already. Full Cave introduces navigational complexity and the stress management of being a lot further away from the entrance. If you are still managing basic functions at a conscious level, you are going to have trouble integrating the thinking and decision making involved in more complex dives, and doing it well. I don't know how much time or how many dives you will have in your doubles before your class, but I hope it's enough that you have figured out how to balance them nicely, and that you can run through a simple valve shutdown sequence while maintaining excellent buoyancy, trim, position, and line and team awareness. If not, the class will be more than challenging.

 

[techintime]

JXH,
There are people on this board that "live" for jumping all over a guy like you. I like your attitude. Prove them all wrong by doing well in your AN and full cave courses. Good luck with your training. Be sure to update this thread when you finish because I look forward to hearing about it.