Prep for Combat Diving (NAUI vs PADI)

[tbone1004]

what was said above. where I was taught, it was a NAUI university program that was taught by a former frogman, so those that ultimately wanted to go into EOD, etc. would take scuba 1, scuba 2, and survival swimming prior to going in, but you aren't going to get any of that in the recreational world and a lot of what we teach in recreational and technical diving is very different than what is taught in the military, especially with most of it being done on rebreathers

 

[bamafan]

I would recommend a freediving course. Getting comfortable in the water and being able to hold your breath for several minutes will not be taught in any scuba class but with a freediving class you will have a good basis for being able to breath hold for several minutes at a time.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

To all: I am going for the SO rate with the U.S. Navy. There is a lot of work to be done and each day I am actively improving myself. Advice on physical standards and training is always welcome, however I am most interested in your knowledge as diving subject matter experts in your respective fields.

I have three goals (listed by priority) behind gaining basic civilian training before I am instructed in detail by the Navy.
1) To confirm I do not have a hidden medical condition that would provide me from diving.
2) To gain basic familiarity with process of diving and practice relaxing, thinking smoothly, and acting precisely under a new environment and challenge.
3) To start and have fun with recreation diving which I have long dreamed of beginning.

It appears that GUE is the strongest recommendation from this group with NAUI then PADI following behind.
I'll look into this, as well as searching for an instructor who is a former military diver who might be able to tailor my training toward my goals.

I am currently a college student in San Diego County and spend summers in Orange County, California.
If you know any GUE or former military diver instructors in the area (or other great programs) it would be greatly appreciated if you could pass their information to me. This also applies to any SOF or NSW members you know that would be happy to talk about their experiences with the lifestyle and the hardships that come with it.

Lastly, I have some freediving experience but I am interested in getting instructor-led training as well. Are there complications that arise from getting certifications from different agencies or should I just go with AIDA for this since that is their specialty?

Thanks to all for your advice.

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To #6 - I am looking into rejoining a swim team and finding coaching for my CS stroke. Can you expand on the difference between GUE's progressive finesse style and the US Government's old school style?
To #7 - Though Rocket Fins are more appealing dive fins to me as a whole, I am looking into getting Jet Fins since those are fins used for training early in the pipeline. And there are laps to be done, many laps
To #8 - If you perform well and jump through the right hoops, you can enlist with a contract to immediately enter the pipeline for the SO rate. Dive training occurs during selection for that rate rather than as specialty training for select members as Army SF handles it. "Excellent physical conditioning, mental toughness, highly positive outlook, and strong level of self confidence" is the way I have chosen to live my life. What I have accomplished in the last couple years since it clicked that achieving is simply a decision has amazed me.

 

[abnfrog]

I like sof diver am a SF combat diver .. he is ABSOLUTLY right its 50/50 physical fitness and metal (51 percent ) FORGET GUE ... it wont help but might hurt you ...... just get certed by who ever , then dive your brains out and get comfortable in the water ..with and without mask ,,learn to "jock up " (gear up with GREAT detail.......then run train till you pass out .work out till you pass out..swim till you ALMOST pass out ...... and learn that your body can do ten times your mind says you cant ...NEVER GIVE UP ......if your recruiter says you will get combat diver program he's a liar .(they call it a dream sheet for a reason ...)....if you graduate Airborne then Q course (a year or more ) SF you MIGHT get a shot at Combat Diver , but only if they say they need you to do it ........steve

 

[KevinNM]

PT is a critical screening test. You have to be in the best shape you can possible imagine. You will get better that that. But if you can not easily complete the minimum standard you are going to be in a world of hurt. Running on sand is different than running on a track.

They will teach you to dive the way that they want you to dive. You have to be comfortable in the water when you get there, don't worry about knowing how to dive. There is no diving until you finish BUDS phase 1. Spend time on things that will help you pass BUDS phase 1, it's extremely hard.

Know how to swim and be able to do it for a long time. Be able to do it in cold water. Do it in the open ocean if you can. But don't get killed preparing, some stuff you absolutely need a training partner or your GF in a kayak to do safely.

Be absolutely determined that you will never give up, they will have to carry you out. It's extremely physical, but the mental part is critical.

 

[DennisS]

I saw a documentary on the training of army combat divers down in key west. The physical/mental part of it weeds out a large percentage of the applicants and these were guys that completed ranger training. They never had a chance to get near a scuba tank.

Drownproofing with your hands and feet tied for 5 minutes, recovering your mask in 10 ft of water with hands and feet tied, picking it up with your teeth, lots of exercises that have everything to do with not panicking in the water and nothing to do with scuba, just to get in the course.

Take a recreational course for fun and to be comfortable in the water under ideal conditions, but don't expect it to be any preparation for what these guys do. It's brutal, it's meant to induce panic.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I would start at looking at the bare minimum requirements. The below table was taken directly from the U.S. Navy site.

As for combat divers, I see my brothers mentioning the Army however the Navy also has Combat Divers.

If you have been promised entry into BUD/S by your recruiter, they lied!! I suggest working on swimming with and without a mask.

As for dive training, that happens in the second phase of BUD/S and is about a 8 week program.

BUD/S Phases
Phase 1 – Physical Conditioning (8 weeks)

• Running in the sand
• Swimming – up to 2 miles w/fins in the ocean
• Calisthenics
• Timed Obstacle Course
• Four-mile timed runs in boots
• Small boat seamanship
• Hydrographic surveys and creating charts
• Hell Week – Week 4 of Phase 1
• 5 ½ days of continuous training
• Four hours sleep, total
• Swimming
• Running
• Enduring cold, wet, and exhaustion
• Rock Portage in Rubber Raiding Craft
• Doing 10 times what you thought possible
• TEAMWORK!

Phase 2 – Diving (8 weeks)

• Step up intensity of the physical training
• Focus on Combat Diving
• Open-Circuit (compressed air) SCUBA
• Closed-Circuit (100% oxygen) SCUBA
• Long-distance underwater dives
• Mission-focused combat swimming and diving techniques

Phase 3 – Land Warfare (9 weeks)

• Increasingly strenuous physical training
• Weapons training
• Demolitions (military explosives)
• Small unit tactics
• Patrolling techniques
• Rappelling and fast rope operations
• Marksmanship

Last is the SQT (SEAL Qualification Training that consists of the ever so fun SERE, Tactical Air Operations (Static Line/Freefall), Tactical Combat Medicine, Communications, Advanced Special Operations, Cold Weather/Mountaineering, Maritime Operations, Combat Swimmer, Tactical Ground Mobility, Land Warfare (small unit tactics, light and heavy weapons, demolitions), armed (CQD) and unarmed combatives (MMA/USA/USMC style), Close Combat Weapons and Assaults/Close Quarters Combat. The emphasis in SQT is in building and developing an individual operator (NCO and Officer)
capable of joining a NSW Troop with minimal deviation in operational capability. The students are broken into 20 man Platoons with two 10-man squads. Each Platoon is assigned a PLT Mentor/Chief to evaluate their performance throughout the pipeline.


Do not forget that your grades should be good as you need to pass the ASVAB with a very high score (GS+MC+EI=170 or VE+MK+MC+CS=220 or VE+AR=110 MC=50) and you must be able to pass a background check as well as a vision test

• Meet specific eyesight requirements: 20/40 best eye; 20/70 worst eye; correctable to 20/25 with no color blindness

 

[bmbeaty]

I would start at looking at the bare minimum requirements. The below table was taken directly from the U.S. Navy site.

As for combat divers, I see my brothers mentioning the Army however the Navy also has Combat Divers.




View attachment 403909



If you have been promised entry into BUD/S by your recruiter, they lied!! I suggest working on swimming with and without a mask.

As for dive training, that happens in the second phase of BUD/S and is about a 8 week program.

BUD/S Phases
Phase 1 – Physical Conditioning (8 weeks)

• Running in the sand
• Swimming – up to 2 miles w/fins in the ocean
• Calisthenics
• Timed Obstacle Course
• Four-mile timed runs in boots
• Small boat seamanship
• Hydrographic surveys and creating charts
• Hell Week – Week 4 of Phase 1
• 5 ½ days of continuous training
• Four hours sleep, total
• Swimming
• Running
• Enduring cold, wet, and exhaustion
• Rock Portage in Rubber Raiding Craft
• Doing 10 times what you thought possible
• TEAMWORK!

Phase 2 – Diving (8 weeks)

• Step up intensity of the physical training
• Focus on Combat Diving
• Open-Circuit (compressed air) SCUBA
• Closed-Circuit (100% oxygen) SCUBA
• Long-distance underwater dives
• Mission-focused combat swimming and diving techniques

Phase 3 – Land Warfare (9 weeks)

• Increasingly strenuous physical training
• Weapons training
• Demolitions (military explosives)
• Small unit tactics
• Patrolling techniques
• Rappelling and fast rope operations
• Marksmanship

Last is the SQT (SEAL Qualification Training that consists of the ever so fun SERE, Tactical Air Operations (Static Line/Freefall), Tactical Combat Medicine, Communications, Advanced Special Operations, Cold Weather/Mountaineering, Maritime Operations, Combat Swimmer, Tactical Ground Mobility, Land Warfare (small unit tactics, light and heavy weapons, demolitions), armed (CQD) and unarmed combatives (MMA/USA/USMC style), Close Combat Weapons and Assaults/Close Quarters Combat. The emphasis in SQT is in building and developing an individual operator (NCO and Officer)
capable of joining a NSW Troop with minimal deviation in operational capability. The students are broken into 20 man Platoons with two 10-man squads. Each Platoon is assigned a PLT Mentor/Chief to evaluate their performance throughout the pipeline.


Do not forget that your grades should be good as you need to pass the ASVAB with a very high score (GS+MC+EI=170 or VE+MK+MC+CS=220 or VE+AR=110 MC=50) and you must be able to pass a background check as well as a vision test

• Meet specific eyesight requirements: 20/40 best eye; 20/70 worst eye; correctable to 20/25 with no color blindness

They do actually give out BUD/S contracts now, similar to the Army's 18x program. Massive washout rate in both programs.

 

[KevinNM]

It varies greatly by class, but I think the absolute minimum washout for BUDS is over 50%. I've heard that was one class where everyone quit or washed out, but that might be an urban rumor.

It's like this for all the Special Ops units units. PJs, SF, etc. The ranger units RASP has a high washout rate too. They are designed to be very hard and only allow the most capable and determined to get through. And sometime you just get hurt and can't complete despite your determination and preparation.

So if you are going in with a contract for this, think a little about what else the contract says.

 

[oldschoolto]

They only take the ones they need.. They will make the classes harder and harder to get the washout rate... Sad fact, But Sometimes it is not your day...

Jim