Prayer is useless?

[grazie42]

Ok...I´ve just read the previous 220 posts...there´s no way I´m not typing anything after that...

I believe in personal choice, and taking responsibility for those choices.

I believe that everything that has happend before this moment will affect my choices in the next but that that in no way limits my responsibility for the choices I make.

I believe in constant change because, to me, not to change is to cease evolving. Stagnation is a slow death. Some may argue that constant change is a fast one

I think productive discussions about belief should be about being open to changing your own, not someone elses...

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Awesome, Grazie. I couldn't agree more. Very nice.

 

[H2Andy]

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

DivingPreacher, just so you don't think i'm ignoring you, just letting you know
that our views on this are so widely apart that it's probably not productive
for me to respond.

i salute your beliefs! you are entitled to them, and i don't want to change them.

just one thing, though... be aware that you are using circular logic here.

why is the Bible right?

because it's the word of God

how do i know the Bible is the word of God?

becuase the Bible says it

how do i know the Bible is right?

because it's the word of GOd

how do i know the Bible is the word of God?

Because the Bible says it...

and so on...

now, you can believe this, but please don't confuse this with proof of anything

 

[Potapko]

DivingPreacher, just so you don't think i'm ignoring you, just letting you know
that our views on this are so widely apart that it's probably not productive
for me to respond.

i salute your beliefs! you are entitled to them, and i don't want to change them.

just one thing, though... be aware that you are using circular logic here.

why is the Bible right?

because it's the word of God

how do i know the Bible is the word of God?

becuase the Bible says it

how do i know the Bible is right?

because it's the word of GOd

how do i know the Bible is the word of God?

Because the Bible says it...

and so on...

now, you can believe this, but please don't confuse this with proof of anything

No offense taken.
On the other hand people often choose not to consider the internal AND external evidence that the Bible is the Word of God. Those who take the time to search it out rarely reject it. And those who do, don't reject it because of a lack of evidence.

There is no other credible explanation for its origin, preservation, or perfection.

Good luck on your journey,

 

[H2Andy]

There is no other credible explanation for its origin, preservation, or perfection.

ah... well.... this again is open for debate...

there's quite logical explanations and answers as to how the books that make
up the Bible came to be. but you have to be open to the possibility that
it's not the inspired word of God.

i understand that you can't be open to that possibility, so those explanations
and answers are not available to you.

however, they are available to others who don't make the same
assumption going into the research.

 

[Soggy]

Those who take the time to search it out rarely reject it. And those who do, don't reject it because of a lack of evidence.

I took the time and rejected it based on lack of evidence. From what I have read and seen, nothing in the universe requires a supreme being. Those things that are unexplainable are only unexplainable because we haven't figured it out yet.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I took the time and rejected it based on lack of evidence. From what I have read and seen, nothing in the universe requires a supreme being. Those things that are unexplainable are only unexplainable because we haven't figured it out yet.

I don't know how evidence surrounding the Bible would stand up in a cout room but there are as many"scholars" who lean one way as lean the other. As an engineer I see flawed logic on both sides. However, the Bible is not why I believe there is a God. I know there's a God because I know Him.

I don't think prayer is useless (the thread title) or that you can measure it's usefullness by how many sick people you can get cured by praying. the whole idea is pretty silly and who ever thought up the study shouldn't be allowed to do studies. LOL. Prayer is how we talk to God. Talking with God is how one gets to know Him, not how one fills their Christmas stocking.

Of course, if I'm wrong and all the prayers that I think were answered were really just probability working in my favor and we are really just cosmic **** that got lumped together just right to start walking, talking and thinking, then I probably should have robbed a bank today so I can go diving tomarrow rather than going to work because working hurts my hands, back, knees and hips.

 

[H2Andy]

then I probably should have robbed a bank today so I can go diving tomarrow rather than going to work because working hurts my hands, back, knees and hips.

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime



but seriously, the only thing that keeps you from being an anti-social
criminal is the idea of an afterlife?

btw... i do think prayer works... my mother has survived on prayer
most of her life

now, what it "works for" is a different issue

 

[MikeFerrara]

One more thing before I sign-off for the day...

My parents raised me Catholic, and as an adult, I have been a member at various protestant churches over the years. But all my life there were things about the Christian view of God that never sounded right to me. I have never once believed in Hell. I have never once believed that God would condemn people simply for not having the *proper* belief. I have ALWAYS believed that people of all faiths were connected in some way, and that none were bad or wrong. I have ALWAYS believed that if in fact God does judge us, it is based on who we are and what is in our hearts and not whose version of religion we adhered to.

Of all the posts I've read in this thread this is the most interesting one. You seem to believe that there's some kind of god, that he may judge us, that there might be some kind of heaven but no hell.

Is this a good and just god? What are his standards like and do you think he, as a just god, would let us know what they are? It doesn't seem just to give us a test and not tell us what it takes to pass it.

You say that he would judge us based on what's in out hearts. Kind of like going to god or getting to heaven on your own terms? I'll get in because?...I'm an ok person? The Christian view of course is that God does judge you based on what's in your heart and hence have been tried, convicted and sentanced (and deserving of that sentance)....enter some of the concepts that help define Christianity...grace and the sacrifice of Christ in order to pay for your failure to meet the standards that have been set by God so that you can appear blameless and jusified before Him...as a gift...a gift so perfect and of such value that there isn't anything you could ever say or do that could be good enough that you could earn it. What kind of second rate god would let the people I know into heaven on their own merit without help?

Now, since all of these thoughts are things that I arrived at on my own, and not from the churches I attended, I could very well say that it has been an innate belief, possibly even given to me by God. What gives any HUMAN the right/ability/knowledge/power to judge my beliefs and label them wrong? The ONLY being in the universe who could possibly do that is God him/herself, and no human being can claim that title. So, all their holier-than-thou attempts at conversion and prayers for my salvation are unnecessary. I have my truth, and as much faith in it as they have in theirs.

It's sort of like this, if I see you crossing the street while messing with your cell phone and about to step in front of a buss should I say or do something? After all you appear completely comfortable and confident in your beliefe that it's now safe to cross the street. You have your truth. You have faith in that truth and have not asked me for anything. It could appear judgemental of me to come off as thinking that your truth might not be true (because of the buss that I see comming). I say it's sort of like that but not exactly. When you get run over by a buss you usually only spen a few moments getting run over. What if you were going to have to spend eternity under that buss and were very close to running out of time to find a new truth (one that takes the buss into consideration)? It might not be a "hollier-than-thou" thing though because I know that left on my own I'd end up under the buss too. Now lets take the case where I'm wrong and the buss isn't really going to hit you. Interupting your phone call to warn you really is unnecessary but it doesn't look like it from where I'm standing. Can you blame me for trying?

 

[MikeFerrara]

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime



but seriously, the only thing that keeps you from being an anti-social
criminal is the idea of an afterlife?

What do you mean...anti-social? I could be very social if I had lots of money and the time to spend it without being too tired from having worked so hard earning it. LOL.

Without Gods standards of right and wrong, my right is every bit as right as yours. We hear that a lot now days don't we? If you had the power to impose your definitions on me It would come down to a simple risk vs benefit analysis. Theft would obviously be more right for a skilled thief than an unskilled one. Besides, how could a lump of cosmic junk that stuck together by chance possibly be wrong?