Possible new diving reality TV program.

[Deep South Divers]

Seajay, I will dive with ya anytime. Just let me know when its good for you, what I need to bring, and I'm there man.

Sounds great!

Dive club meeting on the second Thursday every month... Look up "BSDC Divers" on Facebook (Beaufort Sportfish and Dive Club) and join the group. Dives are posted there.

You'd have a blast...

 

[Deep South Divers]

show idea for you

Deep south Divers dives the Great lakes. There wont be any Gators or the likes of that but tons of shipwrecks and cold water.

probably wont find many teeth either , not of megladon variety

but should make for interesting drama, watching you guys adjust to the 50 degree water

Hahahaaa!

Yeah, I don't want to take anything from you, but the water in the video was 53*... It wouldn't be much of an adjustment.

Water temps here range from about 36* (mid-winter last year) to almost 90* mid-summer. We have both fresh and salt water locally, and we do travel quite a bit.

The last time I was in Toronto I dove the Great Lakes. I really enjoyed the visibility (like offshore here) and the lesser current. I LOVE the 'Lakes, and y'all are very lucky to have all of those shipwrecks. 'Wrecking is my favorite activity...

I totally agree that we should shoot an episode up there... Any excuse to dive something "different" is always a good idea!

 

[mheaster]

I thoroughly enjoyed the clip and sincerely hope it gets picked up as a show!

Just to settle an argument brought up by a friend who was surprisingly opposed to the clip/potential show, based on the thought of you guys being a bunch of shipwreck looters: How old was that ship's wheel? I didn't think it looked very old at all or had it previously been cleaned up/repaired/restored and just used again for the filming?

 

[Randy43068]

I can pretend that I lost a watch possessing great value.

Hahahaaa!

Yeah, I don't want to take anything from you, but the water in the video was 53*... It wouldn't be much of an adjustment.

Water temps here range from about 36* (mid-winter last year) to almost 90* mid-summer. We have both fresh and salt water locally, and we do travel quite a bit.

The last time I was in Toronto I dove the Great Lakes. I really enjoyed the visibility (like offshore here) and the lesser current. I LOVE the 'Lakes, and y'all are very lucky to have all of those shipwrecks. 'Wrecking is my favorite activity...

I totally agree that we should shoot an episode up there... Any excuse to dive something "different" is always a good idea!

 

[Randy43068]

I too hope this project gets some air time. We would watch.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I thoroughly enjoyed the clip and sincerely hope it gets picked up as a show!

Just to settle an argument brought up by a friend who was surprisingly opposed to the clip/potential show, based on the thought of you guys being a bunch of shipwreck looters: How old was that ship's wheel? I didn't think it looked very old at all or had it previously been cleaned up/repaired/restored and just used again for the filming?

mheaster, you bring up a very interesting point with your well-timed question.

You can see from my signature what side of the fence I am on... To me, if something has been lost for decades, ANYONE finding it would be an improvement over letting the ocean dissolve the history altogether and the story never being told - and while many may not agree, I can promise you that if it's in the ocean, it IS dissolving. And I've been around enough divers and salvors and legislators and archaeologists and anthropologists and even curators to tell you that it's my humble opinion that arguing over who owns it and whether or not it's "correctly" accounted for is really just a big, political and financial, beaurocratic lesson in what's wrong with the human race. I see nothing but greed and the lust for power. Nothing personifies that more than the argument over shipwreck rights and artifact ownership. It gets really bad when the item has a lot of monetary or historical value.

I could literally write books on the subject.

To avoid a post that gets way too long and boring for most, let's cut to the chase about this... 'Cause there's a lot of places in the ethical and legal argument of artifacts to get hung up.

There is a right way and a wrong way to retrieve artifacts... We are licensed by the State of South Carolina to recover both archaelogical and anthropological artifacts. There is no "looting" if recovery - or salvage (depends on which side of the fence you're on, but it's the same thing) - is done legally and ethically. I can assure you that our retrievals are legal and ethical and we have worked closely with government-appointed anthropological and archaelogical experts to conserve items, their associated history, and yes, their financial worth.

Tell your friend to reserve the term "looters" for someone who is not licensed to recover artifacts.

 

[Dr Dog]

...Which brings me to the very controversial concept of "looting" shipwrecks.

You can see from my signature what side of the fence I am on... To me, if something has been lost for decades, ANYONE finding it would be an improvement over letting the ocean dissolve the history altogether and the story never being told - and while many may not agree, I can promise you that if it's in the ocean, it is dissolving. And I've been around enough divers and salvors and legislators and archaeologists and anthropologists and even curators to tell you that it's my humble opinion that arguing over who owns it and whether or not it's "correctly" accounted for is really just a big, political and financial, beaurocratic lesson in what's wrong with the human race. I see nothing but greed and the lust for power. Nothing personifies that more than the argument over shipwreck rights and artifact ownership. It gets really bad when the item has a lot of monetary or historical value.

I could literally write books on the subject.

To avoid a post that gets way too long and boring for most, let's cut to the chase about this... 'Cause there's a lot of places in the ethical and legal argument of artifacts to get hung up.

There is a right way and a wrong way to retrieve artifacts... We are licensed by the State of South Carolina to recover both archaelogical and anthropological artifacts. There is no "looting" if recovery - or salvage (depends on which side of the fence you're on, but it's the same thing) - is done legally and ethically. I can assure you that our retrievals are legal and ethical and we have worked closely with government-appointed anthropological and archaelogical experts to conserve items, their associated history, and yes, their financial worth.

Tell your friend to reserve the term "looters" for someone who is not licensed to recover artifacts.

I agree with this, for the most part, there should be some solemn areas that could be left alone. But what good are shipwreck artifacts at the bottom, where noone will ever get to enjoy them

 

[Scott T C]

I use to be on the side that was "don't disturb them", though as I did more research into wrecks and other items...I came to the gross reality of what SeaJay's signature states...which it is the lethal truth. If the item (or items) is in an environment where the water is cold and low or very low O2 saturation, then leaving items intact for others to view I agree upon...or if the item serves as a memorial of some kind.

However, if it is in saltwater and is not a memorial, it should be fair game if salvaged properly & legally. Saltwater is nasty and it will strip the ions from everything metallic till it dissolves (that, or bacteria will feed on the metals, basically rusting them apart), wood will be eaten away by the microbes in the water, etc. If you leave it there, only a generation or two will ever get to see it. If you remove the item (items) and preserve them, many generations will be able to view it/them. Especially if donated to a museum or other learning institution.

So I completely support the above post and SeaJay's on recovery/salvage of artifacts/items.

 

[Deep South Divers]

The State of South Carolina is comparatively progressive about artifact recovery.

South Carolina waters (all inshore waters and lakes and rivers up to 3 miles or less offshore) are literally teeming with historical artifacts. The Beaufort/Charleston areas have seen European history here since the early 1500's, and prior to that, Native American history. Our local waters have seen the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and the Spanish-American War.

Our area also is one of the only places in the world where a diver can retrieve fossils dating back tens of millions of years due to an exposed fossil bed called the Hawthorne Formation. This bed is sporadically exposed basically from about Georgetown, South Carolina to about Jacksonville, Florida... To include all of coastal Georgia. Unfortunately, Georgia's laws on artifact recovery are short and simple: It's illegal.

Florida's laws are less one-sided, and say that it's not illegal, but anything recovered is the property of the State of Florida. Usually, an artifact will be returned to the finder, but it's optional for the State to do that. Obviously, if the artifact had great value - either historical or monetary or even politically - the State has the right to keep the item and do whatever it wants to with it.

South Carolina, with it's rich history and small but very dedicated "blackwater" dive population, has come up with an interesting concept: Aware that most divers simply avoid reporting artifacts recovered - and unable to justify the costs involved in enforcing a "no take" rule like Georgia has (unsuccessfully, I might add) - the State created a small but effective project called "SDAMP," which stands for "Sport Diver Archaeology Management Program." This organization has the power to grant licenses like fishing licenses. Licensed artifact-hunting divers are able to dive and make retrievals of artifacts quite liberally, but must adhere to a set of laws that prohibits divers from using mechanical or air-powered means of excavation (this includes dredges and lifts and "mailboxes"). These laws also prohibit the use of lift bags and/or cranes, which is to imply that divers can make retrievals of artifacts (which are defined as more than 40 years old) if it's by hand and using only the floatation of their BCs. Additionally, all artifacts are to be reported quarterly, usually with a description and photograph and GPS location. When the artifacts get really interesting and/or valuable, a diver can expect to be contacted by SDAMP and possibly even asked to bring the item in for scientific evaluation.

Obviously, this protects the State's interests in our history and especially our Southern Heritage, of which this author has 18 generations.

Clearly, from the diver's perspective, this sounds like a bunch of pain-in-the-neck paperwork to fill out, and there seems to be a general consensus in divers to be secretive about their finds - after all, no governing body can confiscate something that they don't know about.

...Not so fast, though... There's some pretty cool things that this program offers divers. Firstly, through this program, State law grants the finder of the artifact possession of that artifact if they are a licensed diver and have adhered to all of the requirements of the license. In other words, the State recognizes that if you find something, it's yours. There is nothing like this in any other State, as far as I know. The State requires that you keep the item in your posession for 60 days following your quarterly report, so that they can see it if they need to... But after that, you are welcome to do with it as you wish, including sell it. This has wonderful ramifications... Now a diver can legally find something and legally sell it to a collector or museum where it can be shared with the general public. The diver is able to profit (and do more diving and find more artifacts), the State is able to scientifically categorize items and forensically study them (helping to create a historically accurate account), the collector/museum is able to collect and/or display the item, and the public is able to enjoy it and learn from it. Essentially, the SDAMP program has taken what was essentially a black market for artifacts and turned it into a legitimate business where everyone is enriched - in all ways - for the find.

The SDAMP program has also provided divers with classes and education regarding artifact recovery, artifact identification, and even shared locations where artifacts are likely to be found. It has created a place for divers to share knowledge and camaraderie in ways that are beneficial to all.

For the naysayers that still object to the concept of telling others about their finds (and it is very popular to be secretive, even though in this and many States it is illegal), it is a fact that the State of South Carolina has not confiscated one artifact since the inception of the SDAMP program. Simply put, the State wants to work with the divers, and there is benefit for all in it.

For the commercial divers like me, there's an additional benefit... When I report an artifact and that artifact is inspected by SDAMP, it helps to legitimize the find... That is, it authenticates the validity of my artifact. Sure, SDAMP has not done this on purpose (SDAMP is a scientific, archaeological organization and has little interest in the monetary value of artifacts), but nonetheless, it is a fact.

...Aside from that, let's face it... Unlike most divers here, I do this professionally. My company - a South Carolina sole proprietorship with a valid State-granted business license and a very expensive insurance policy - can not afford to have the legal liability of disadherence to the law. We must comply because we live and work here and have a professional reputation at stake.

...Which is why it's so offensive to be called a "looter." Far from it... We have worked with SDAMP, the University of South Carolina, the State of South Carolina, several historical societies (and are the only divers for many of them), and even done some diving and conservation on the Hunley submarine. We dive many historical shipwrecks and historical sites, and have every interest in ensuring that the history of South Carolina - my home for many generations - is preserved as much as possible and as accurately as possible. Yes, ultimately I am a commercial diver with a business to support, and it is no secret that I have a great interest in the financial gains brought by our diving... But ultimately, we are equally as interested in the preservation of history, especially as it pertains to our Southern Heritage.

Unlike many academians and businessmen alike involved in the submerged artifact business, I see equal value to both sides of the "fence." SDAMP is the best solution I have seen to bridging the gap between the two.

...Now if I could somehow help them to get more funding from the State, we'd all be happy.

Divers: You need to be licensed to recover artifacts here. No exceptions. And be honest - it's not only to everyone's advantage, but yours as well.

 

[Deep South Divers]

In my avatar to the left I am holding a South Carolina Dispensary bottle. Here's the significance:

Prior to Federal prohibition (US-wide ban on the sale of alcoholic beverages from 1920-1933), the State of South Carolina considered creating a State-wide prohibition. Unfortunately (and predictably), some of the State's most prominent politicians came from alcohol money. Essentially, the Church wanted alcohol banned in this Bible-belt State... And the politicians were not going to let that happen.

Ben Tillman, a longtime alcohol magnate and politician, convinced the State of South Carolina to adopt a simple system: All alcohol companies ("distilleries") would be forbidden to sell alcoholic beverages in the State of South Carolina (satisfying the Church), EXCEPT FOR ONE. This new company would produce alcoholic beverages under the name "South Carolina Dispensary," and would be a State-run monopoly. The State would therefore receive all profits from the only legal alcoholic beverages able to be sold in the State. Tillman, of course, would provide the alcohol and - you guessed it - the special and unique bottles it was to be sold in. Obviously, he became very wealthy - as did the State of South Carolina - while the South Carolina Dispensary ran from 1892 to 1912.

In retrospect, I suppose it's no wonder why us divers have such a difficult time trusting the State. They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. What does drunken power do?

...Anyway, bottles today with the "SCD" or "SC Dispensary" raised lettering are worth a tremedous amount. In the video, Captain Wally estimates one valued at about $50... But eBay proves that they're worth more like $1000 each, being a symbol of political corruption that we should not forget.

If you are interested in more of the story of the SC Dispensary, see South Carolina Dispensary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . It's a fascinating story.

Now... In light of that... Suddenly that avatar means a whole bunch more now, doesn't it? And that bottle means a lot more than it simply being an old vessel for "spirits."

...So yes, I can find a "bottle" on the bottom of the river... But it's the history that gives it such significance. And yes, there is significance both monetarily and intrinsically.

It would be as wrong for us to "take" and "hock" things on eBay or put them on our shelves as a trophy - silently robbing others of history - as it would be for the State to come and take from us what we have worked so hard to find.

We work with the State - under the SDAMP program as the State's attempt to work with us - for the benefit of all. Please, do not call us "looters." It's very offensive.