Possible Lessons from Peacock

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lamont:
What about carrying a strobe to attatch to the line in that situation?
I don't dive caves, none around these parts. However, you may have heard about leaving strobes behind on wrecks, and are getting the two mixed up? We tie off a strobe with our name clearly marked on it, to the bottom of the descent line of the wreck. Retreiving it when we depart the wreck. Easy way to know if you are the last buddy pair leaving the wreck, and aids in locating the line if visibility is low or drops durring the dive.

How this could be used in a cave I find hard to imagine. However, I am not cave certified and have never been in a cave, so my imagination is limited.

My deepest regrets go out the the family and freinds for their lost loved one.
 
pt40fathoms:
We tie off a strobe with our name clearly marked on it, to the bottom of the descent line of the wreck. Retreiving it when we depart the wreck.
We do the same on ocean night dives from a boat to help find the anchor line and know it's yours.
 
Leaving a line arrow as an indication of which way you left for a lost buddy is a dangerous practice. In a stressful situation, both time-stressed and situationally-stressed a mistake can easily be made by a diver leaving an arrow. It may conflict with arrows already on the line and this could lead to confusion by the lost diver coming upon the arrow or confusion by a future diver.

I don't see a problem leaving a non-directional marker that is well-marked. I have always used old-style outrigger clips that are well-marked and easy to read. I don't see anything wrong with leaving something like Wet-Notes, but I agree that leaving a light or some part of your gear that might be needed for your own exit would be a bad idea.

I would also not remove any properly-installed reels (I think that almost goes without saying). The lost diver coming upon a reel that he knows your team installed would find his stress-level go WAY down once he found it and could see from the way it was installed from which way the team had come. A marker on the exit-side of the reel tie-off (which many divers do as a matter of course) would also help in his escape.

But strobes, lights etc. are just more junk on the diver and more junk on the line, IMHO. I can see the efficacy of such devices in OW diving under the proper circumstances, but there is a well-known protocol to cave diving that it behooves all cave divers to hew to.

Obviously, the questions comes up, "how did you lose your buddy?" In this (PIII) case, these divers apparently didn't follow buddy-protocol and allowed the team to get split up. I've seen some buddy teams very far apart from each other and often far off the line, even in silty, low-flow systems. And that seems to be a common scenario of "lost off the line" buddies. Something occurs to silt the cave and one buddy, who is close to the line, gets on it and the other one doesn't.

Staying close to the line wherever possible and close to your buddy is the best assurance of an intact team on the line if things go South. And speaking of South, carrying a compass isn't a bad idea. I know it seems pointless in systems that twist and turn, but if you've done due-diligence and know the map and the general directions within the cave, it can save your life.

I was in Falmouth many years ago with a buddy, diving there for the first time. Our dive-plan was to go to the first opening or air-turn, whichever came first. We got 3/4 of the way to the duck-under when suddenly she was off the line and quickly ascending! Falmouth is a huge cave. At this point in the cave you can't see any wall or the ceiling, they are all far away in each direction. The only thing you can see is the dark, loamy floor. It was our first year of cave diving and although we had been diving regularly in Peacock and Ginnie and Little River etc., we really didn't have that many full cave dives, less than 100. So I instantly made a mistake. I was afraid she would embolize ascending that fast so I ascended quickly to catch her, exhaling as I ascended. But I forgot first principles, I didn't run a reel off of the mainline.

According to other divers, at this point in the cave, there are large passages or bulges that go off in other directions at roughly 90 deg. to the line I was on. We had been at around 100' I believe on the line. By the time I caught her we were at about 55', in 30' vis, in a huge, dark cave and I still couldn't see the ceiling. In the process of getting her calmed down (it took half-dozen "OKs" before I got one back) I could see we were near a wall that angled up to the ceiling. We got on the wall. There were no projections to tie-off on or to hold, so I communicated to her that I wanted her to hold the line there.

I ran my safety reel straight down to the floor and using my compass determined which way would be 90 deg. to the line and after a single sweep I found the mainline. I tied-off on it, again used my compass to determine the exit, placed a pin on the exit side of the reel, and then went back up. Once we were back on the line, I was dealing with all the played out, loose line, trying to get it bunched up and tied to the reel (there was no way to get it reeled back in) when suddenly she started swimming frantically INTO THE CAVE! I dropped the line on the floor and started after her swimming quickly at a determined pace, but mindful of the depth, not too fast. I caught her just as she saw the duck-under at which point she stopped like she had run into something, arms and legs splayed-out, suddenly aware of what she was doing. She turned, swimming in a panic towards me, eyes wide. I got hold of her as she approached and careful to "OK" the line, I communicated to her to "hold" and we had a short conversation about getting calmed down and "this way is the exit". She didn't need to be told twice and once again swimming fast, I'm sure with no regard with where I was, she headed for the exit.

I stopped at my reel just long enough to remove it and the whole bundle of line and caught up with her sitting at deco depth. We had a long, uneventful deco and needless to say, though she is still a friend, that was our last cave dive together. Later she told me she thought she was going to pass out and so ascended because she thought it was the depth. I think it vertigo from no real references. But to this day she insists she was always in control, despite all the OKs she didn't return to me there up on the ceiling.

After I made an initial mistake, following protocol kept us from being statistics. But it was overly exciting.

Naturally, this isn't exactly the same thing as a lost diver situation, but it's about protocol. Having a well-known and rehearsed protocol kept me calm, following that protocol helped me stay focused and on point. I had my "we're screwed" moment, but knowing I had a solution that applied gave me the confidence to proceed. In retrospect, it doesn't seem all that tough, hovering 50' somewhere above the line in a giant, possibly 4-way cave with low-vis, no markers and a panicky buddy, but at the time I was genuinely worried. The point is, whether lost or looking for someone who's lost, there's a drill and every member of every team should know that drill by heart.

JoeL
 
I tend to agree with leaving the light behind thing. My post was a query as to who else may have been taught this way, seeing as this "drill" has, evidently, a few different steps depending on who and which agency.

I think we'd all agree that leaving any working gear behind is a bad thing.

We also have to keep in mind that this scenario we're playing with is akin to the recent thread "What to do when you're out of air at 84 ft" or something like that. As Joel says, "How did you so lose your buddy?"

Meaning, assuming we have a TRUE buddy/team, what is the likelihood of one getting lost, them not finding you or the line, you not finding them, and having re-done your gas calcs, have spent enough time, and still not find them, to have to leave on them............well,.....the odds are just killing you today. Possible, but give me a real world situation of the above where it came down to leaving a backup light or not.

Beyond that, I think we'd all agree, leaving a back-up with your primary down is a non-starter.

I guess my Instructors thoughts are,.... you're giving your buddy one extra chance. It might help, it might not. And we're taught, and practice doing back-up light and no-light exits, anyway, and his thinking is, what's the likelihood of your primary AND back-up going down back to back. Again, it's playing the odds of one vs. the other.

Thanks for the learning opportunities gents.
 
The only times i have heard of gear being left behind are during line drills, the reel/spool that you used to (hopefully) find the line again or find/repair a cut line with, arrows from various line drills (lost line, cut line, lost buddy) and possibly using a light as an anchor in a soft floor where there are no tie-offs.
 
Forgot to mention as well, but I think somebody already did. Another "optionable choice" that was mentioned to me was leaving the reel deployed, and tied off, in your search for your lost buddy, in hopes that it's another line that he may come across, realize it's his team reel and understand from there. (I think Mike said it earlier....) But we're way out there now on the what-ifs and becauses :)

Thanks for your last Joel.
 
pt40fathoms:
I don't dive caves, none around these parts. However, you may have heard about leaving strobes behind on wrecks, and are getting the two mixed up?

Nope, hadn't heard of that.

It just seems logical to me. Nobody seems to have really doubted the idea that leaving something that generates light on the line for a lost buddy to find might be helpful. Its been pointed out that you shouldn't have let it get that serious, but **** happens and this would be a final "hail mary" in a really bad situation. On the other hand, there's broad agreement about not leaving any "working gear" behind. So, why not carry with you an emergency strobe that is bright as possible, as compact as possible, and with a battery life that doesn't need to be much more than an hour. As a final "hail mary" attatch it to the line and hope for the best. It might be clutter on the line, but you shouldn't be doing this very often. Worst thing I can think about is that its more gear to carry that you're probably not going to use, but the same can be said of EMT shears.
 
Scuba_Steve:
. . . In your search for your lost buddy, in hopes that it's another line that he may come across, realize it's his team reel and understand from there. (I think Mike said it earlier....) But we're way out there now on the what-ifs and becauses :)

Thanks for your last Joel.

"But we're way out there now on the what-ifs and becauses :)"

Don't kid yourself. If you're a cave diver, it could happen to YOU. No matter how good you think you or your team are. Why do you think the drills were done in your cert class?

Please dive safe,

theskull
 
lamont:
On the other hand, there's broad agreement about not leaving any "working gear" behind. So, why not carry with you an emergency strobe that is bright as possible, as compact as possible, and with a battery life that doesn't need to be much more than an hour. As a final "hail mary" attatch it to the line and hope for the best. It might be clutter on the line, but you shouldn't be doing this very often. Worst thing I can think about is that its more gear to carry that you're probably not going to use, but the same can be said of EMT shears.
It would seem you have answered your own question in some respect there, you dont really need it, the arrow with your initials on, possibly a bit of wet note stuck to it would be plenty IMO. Carrying something that might only be used for that particular event would seem like you are carrying a fairly useless bit of gear. I can see taking more than one safety reel (or a backup spool), a few arrows, more than one backup light, redundant guages and possibly even redundant cutting tools (just in case you cant reach one i guess) - but an additional light just to put down in the 0.01% chance of this happening seems a bit much. I know the Skull said that it can happen to anyone, but when compared to the other major influences/causes and possible situations encountered, this isnt as high a ranking one from what i can tell. Like i said the only time i would consider losing a piece of equipment, such as a light would be if there are NO other tie off's to search from except anchoring off something you can stick in a soft floor.
 
theskull:
"But we're way out there now on the what-ifs and becauses :)"

Don't kid yourself. If you're a cave diver, it could happen to YOU. No matter how good you think you or your team are. Why do you think the drills were done in your cert class?

Please dive safe,

theskull

The scenario we're talking about is just way too rude to think it would play out that way, to that extent, and quite frankly, if that DID happen to me. Piss on my grave stone, I deserve it. If you're gonna run rough-shod over the rules, then sure it's gonna nip ya sooner or later.

You be hard pressed to find a team that got dead by following the rules. Close hits and misses, sure, that comes with the territory of diving sometimes.

Team tends to mean more than another diver in there with ya, some where. I even heard someone say this death WASN'T solo since the guy went with two other people. Well, he went IN as a "team" member (kinda sorta butnotreally), but he didn't leave that way. IMO, he was solo from the get-go.

I'm really glad they finally added Solo as number 6...........

I look around at many of the deaths over the recents years.......I'm starring a whole pile of solo divers in the face.

So I'm asking, "What took them so long to add number 6?" when it looked pretty obvious for so long?
 

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