Pool size for OWD training - what's adequate?

[boulderjohn]

Okay, it's almost certainly a completely implausible idea, but it makes me smile to think about it, so I'll toss it out in spite of the almost certain lack of practicality.

Wouldn't it be *too* cool to have the pool be part "dive aquarium"? Instead of setting it in the floor, set above the floor (at least partially), and right in, near, or even *as* the front window.

As I recall, an early Star Trek movie used similar technology to transport humpback whales into the future.

 

[ClayJar]

As I recall, an early Star Trek movie used similar technology to transport humpback whales into the future.

Well, since apparently the company went out of business before they could finish commercializing transparent aluminum, it's all we have available.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

It seems to me with 150 divers per year that building a pool would cost each student $30 to $50 per class. (I'm guesstimating 100k spread over 20 years, plus operation and maintenance.) If you believe the market can support that, it's a great idea. I especially like the indoor pool someone from Austin posted. Otherwise, continuing to rent the pool you're using seems to be the best option. Get a big van to carpool and make an event out of it. And, it's a very cool pool...

Yes, it IS a very nice pool indeed, the one we use now. It's perfect! But as I explained, access is very limitied, and we pay out of our noses to be there. With four students, two hours cost me $200, which means $100 pr student on each OWD course. Now if we sometimes should have to arrange courses with less students, if someone doesn't show up (Yeah, it happens...), it's even worse, since most of the rent is a fixed price for reserving part of the pool. Let alone, the logistics really suck.

We are going to upgrade our store in 2009, from 120 square meters today up to about 300 square meters showroom, in a brand new building. I can affect the shape of this building now. That's why I'm early. Actually, we've been offered a share in the project. Which is tempting, since real estate is booming here (How are things in the states? -Sorry, couldn't help it!...). There will be appartments in three floors above our store. Let us think we wish to build for those with a little above average income, or senior citizens. Would they really mind to have access to a 32 C pool, a jacuzzi and a sauna, 7 days a week? -Except when we have classes twice a week? I don't think so. Actually, I think these appartments will have a certain appeal in the market compared to any other offers out there. So perhaps I will not even have to carry the full cost of the pool. My idea, anyways... I just have to sell it to the landlord who's behind the project. Which I'm about to do. He likes! He just wants to see some numbers...



A PADI OWD course goes for NOK 3.500,- here, which is about $600. Including PADI cert, PADI package and gear. Mind you though, we have a mandatory extra day in the sea with a total 6 dives. (By law, cold water training). Then each student leaves us about $250 additional business from ABC-gear and other stuff they pick up. It's left to see, but we hope to have at least a 25% getting full gear from us. But we don't "push" this at all. Instead we support the local dive club and arrange dive trips, so our students have plenty activities offered even after the OWD. I hope it will work! (I know it works...)

 

[letsgodiving]

It seems to me with 150 divers per year that building a pool would cost each student $30 to $50 per class. (I'm guesstimating 100k spread over 20 years, plus operation and maintenance.) If you believe the market can support that, it's a great idea. I especially like the indoor pool someone from Austin posted. Otherwise, continuing to rent the pool you're using seems to be the best option. Get a big van to carpool and make an event out of it. And, it's a very cool pool...

A small (28x14) indoor pool up to commercial standards would probably be over $150k. Business loans cost more than mortgages, so the repayments would be about $20k a year. Operating costs would be around $10k a year; pumps(s); heating for building; insurance; chemical; and property tax.

The annual cost would be around $30k, which is a huge expense for 150 students a year.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

A small (28x14) indoor pool up to commercial standards would probably be over $150k. Business loans cost more than mortgages, so the repayments would be about $20k a year. Operating costs would be around $10k a year; pumps(s); heating for building; insurance; chemical; and property tax.

The annual cost would be around $30k, which is a huge expense for 150 students a year.

Well, I can get a complete pool kit to be placed on a flat surface (on top) for about $20000, plug and play. Well, have to mount it myself though. I don't know what you mean by commercial standards. But it will likely not be what we are looking for.

 

[BeachJunkie]

600 dollars to get certified to dive? Sweet jesus, I thought I was paying a lot. When we built our pool ( don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head, but somewhere around 35 feet long kidney shaped). We did all the digging ourselves and most of the prep work. Total price was just under 10,000. Not sure if thats an option where you're at but it definatley saved us a lot of money.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

600 dollars to get certified to dive? Sweet jesus, I thought I was paying a lot. When we built our pool ( don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head, but somewhere around 35 feet long kidney shaped). We did all the digging ourselves and most of the prep work. Total price was just under 10,000. Not sure if thats an option where you're at but it definatley saved us a lot of money.

Well, your dollar doesn't buy much over here these days. 1$ = 6 NOK
-It used to be around 9-10 NOK not long ago. (I think it has to do with your national economy, so perhaps you'd like to get a new government soon, please! ) So if you take that into perspective + the two extra mandatory sea dives we have to put into a OWD-course, it isn't expensive. Actually, when I took my OWD in 1993 or something, I paid NOK 3500 as well.

 

[SDAnderson]

I've run classes in everything from olympic size pools to tiny little backyard puddles. Skipping the economics considerations (or inconsiderations, as the case may be), I've found that a small class (4 students and 1 instructor) can optimally fit in a 15' x 30' pool, a large class (8 students, 1 instructor, 1 assistant) are a little pinched at that size and need more like 20' x 40'. 8' to 10' is about perfect for the deep section, the shallow section should be a 3' to 4' ledge running the length of the pool and should be 3' deep.

Some rationale:

There is such a thing as too big. Nothing is better for teaching students the need for control than tight spaces. It can be hard (and inefficient) keeping tabs on them as they wallow around in the monster pools and you want them to have the experience of banging into each other to reinforce the need for situational awareness. It's important that students learn how to fin properly and long straight swims can help with that but so does the need to turn corners regularly.

There is such a thing as too small. It's important to be able to line students up on the deck, on the ledge and on the bottom. There are a number of skills that do require a straight line swim (CESA, tow, swim, etc.) so 30' is the shortest workable length for the long side. The short side needs to be long enough to give the instructor room to be in front of the students and for everyone to straighten out between turns and to stretch out for skills practice.

Depth is a double-edge sword. Too deep to stand up in is critical but anything greater than about 10 feet leads to more ear problems and sloppy buoyancy skills. I don't want hovering to be easy - I want students to learn breath control.

Warm is vital. As mentioned earlier, a cold pool means a lot of time wasted on wetsuits. It's also harder to maintain energy and attention levels in cold water. Hotter than about 90F and it gets to be hard to control the algae, so there is a limit.

Economics dictates no larger than necessary to get the job done, so determining normal class size will be an important factor.

 

[letsgodiving]

Well, your dollar doesn't buy much over here these days. 1$ = 6 NOK
-It used to be around 9-10 NOK not long ago. (I think it has to do with your national economy, so perhaps you'd like to get a new government soon, please! ) So if you take that into perspective + the two extra mandatory sea dives we have to put into a OWD-course, it isn't expensive. Actually, when I took my OWD in 1993 or something, I paid NOK 3500 as well.

I went to Norway many years ago and it was ridiculously expensive for visitors. Most things were three or four times more expensive than the UK and the UK is more expensive than the US. Salaries are a lot higher to compensate.

Out of interest can you tell me what it costs for a few everyday items over there to get a feel for how expensive it is now:

12oz Beer = ??
Gallon of gas/petrol = ??
A Candy bar (Mars) = ??

What is the average salary over there these days?

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

I went to Norway many years ago and it was ridiculously expensive for visitors. Most things were three or four times more expensive than the UK and the UK is more expensive than the US. Salaries are a lot higher to compensate.

Out of interest can you tell me what it costs for a few everyday items over there to get a feel for how expensive it is now:

12oz Beer = ??
Gallon of gas/petrol = ??
A Candy bar (Mars) = ??

What is the average salary over there these days?

It's not expensive here, it's just your salary's too small

12oz Beer = No idea. Never heard of oz-beer. A can (0.33L) of real beer costs from 1,40$. It never ruined me, and I drank a lot...
Gallon of gas/petrol = They only sell litres, which is expensive due to taxes. About the same as many other countries in Europe now.
A Candy bar (Mars) = No idea. Never give it any thoughts. Pocket change anyways?

Sorry, can't help you much. Yes, for visiting tourists on a budget things are "confusing". Many things are more expensive than they are used to. But then, other stuff can be less expensive, like pork, mutton or milk. On an average we spend 10% of our family income on food. -Less than many countries I think.

But you can get an OWD-course for much cheaper than with us. I see offers down to 300$ in major cities like Oslo and Bergen at greater dive centres. But what you get for the money? Classes of 14-18 students and more than a "push" regarding buying your first gear, like buy-now-pay-later credit deals etc... :no