Pool session gone awry...

[Shasta_man]

What explosives and demolition training did you get?

hassle free diving ? ..... OK .... have your instructor put you thru the "hell" dive part of the course. Back in the 60's they made us put alumnium foil in the masks (so we couldn't see) and made us pick up weights off the bottom on the pool. The instructors would then swim around and do stuff like drop your weight belt, turn off your air or sometimes remove your regulator out of your mouth just to see how you would react. ( now remember we had doublehoses and singlehoses without octs. back then ). Now since I'm an "old salt" and haven't taken a basic course in over 30 years they may not do this anymore. Hell ..... I just learned that most on the time they don't show you how to share one 2nd stag in buddy breathing (and let you practice it in the pool) or discuss the importance of having a snorkel with you at all times ....... training .... i know they don't teach how to take your tank off underwater and use it as a ram to butt sharks attacks by hitting them in the nose...... honest ..... I was taught that ....

 

[Javelin]

My husband and I just passed our written OW tests last week. And last weekend went to the pool for a final practice session before we leave this weekend on our trip for our OW checkout dives.

Up until this last pool session, my hubby and I have both been completely comfortable in the water, no freak-outs or problems with any of the required skills. We go to the pool twice a week to practice (once during our class, and then once to practice what we went over in the class). We have always been trying to sneak something up on the other to make sure we both were comfortable with all our skills and wouldn't scare/freak out easily.

However, things changed during our last practice session at the pool. Trying to surprise me, my hubby randomly swam up to me while I was practicing removing and donning my gear underwater and gave me the "out of air" signal - and out came his reg. My octo came out and I handed it over to him, but in my hurry, I accidentally handed it to him upside-down. He didn't notice this either and took it to breathe from. I was about to reach over to grab his BC strap, so we could practice our sharing air ascent when he suddenly spit out my octo and bolted for the top. I tried to grab his BC to stop him, but I missed and it was too late for a second attempt, he was gone.

Afraid that something really was wrong I immediately ascended to check on him. When I asked him what had happened, why he'd shot for the top, he said he'd sucked water instead of air because the octo was upside down. His reg had remained easily within his grasp, resting over his shoulder the entire time... I asked him why he didn't simply switch back to it... And he said that he didn't know. Not only that, but he shrugged it off, like it was no big deal...

To me, however, it was a big deal. All I can think of is "What if that happens on our checkout dives when we're at fifty or more feet?" When I tried to talk to him about it... all he did was get angry with me because he didn't want out OWI to overhear what had happened (when I think our OWI should KNOW, so he could give advice or at least be aware of what happened in case stupid me accidentally gives him the octo upside down again on our checkout dives). He continues to act like it's no big deal and that I'm seriously over-reacting.

I was hoping to get some second, impartial opinions... Am I over-reacting? Or shouldn't he be brushing it off? I mean, I hope he'd have more sense than to dart up from 50 feet just because he got a mouthful of water.... but then he said he wasn't thinking at all when he did it in the pool... so I don't know.

Thanks for any advice anyone may have.

Hmmm. This may sound strange but... Its a good thing this happened when it did in a swimming pool. I can never over emphasis: Training training training. Better that this incident happen in a pool then in an open water enviroment. Now you are both aware that even though you are taught a skill, things can still go wrong. Just because one completes a skill does not mean they are an expert at handling emergencies in or around that type of issue. I know instructors that have gone through all their training but have never had to deal with an emergency either personal or otherwise. Consider this a little additional training that other students did not get.

I would not bring this up with the OWI, your husband right now is embarased that this occured which caused him to bolt to the surface and highligting this to a "Pro" could really hurt his confidence. Scuba is 60% mental and 40% physical.

Don't forget to thank the powers that be that no one was hurt.

 

[Diver0001]

I would not bring this up with the OWI, your husband right now is embarased that this occured which caused him to bolt to the surface and highligting this to a "Pro" could really hurt his confidence. Scuba is 60% mental and 40% physical.

Pro's see these things happen 27 times a week. I don't understand why asking the pro for advice would be bad for his confidence. Afterall, his instructor is there to teach him how to deal with this very reflex

R..

 

[Javelin]

Pro's see these things happen 27 times a week. I don't understand why asking the pro for advice would be bad for his confidence. Afterall, his instructor is there to teach him how to deal with this very reflex

R..

Hehe, 27 times a week. Hate to be that instructor's student. "Deal with this very reflex" .... how? By a) telling him not to do it or by b) holding him down?

Panic is an extremely powerful reaction. We DM's and Instructors talk feverishly about what to do in such an incident. You can try to prevent them for rushing up but panic instils super human strength in a diver caught in a flee or fight situation which will most likely make them unmanageable or worse could injure you in the process.

The best resolution is prevention and that requires training. And lots of it. When Murphy shows up, he does not wait until everyone is finished task loading and comfortably swimming along before poping an issue on you.

And don't get me going on PADI. In two weekends you are a certified diver, in a third weekend you are an advanced diver. Holy smokes advanced, must be ready for anything with what? 8 dives under ones belt?

Any how we should all appologize to rainbow as we are using her thread for a very heated debate on organizations, training techniques, etc. We all know we can do better and we are all in this together. Lets try to all play safe.

 

[Diver0001]

"Deal with this very reflex" .... how? By a) telling him not to do it or by b) holding him down?

Well ok..... What do you think the training is all about? What do you think holding someone down and helping them to sort it out under water does for them? It's about what happens between your ears.....

Panic is an extremely powerful reaction. We DM's and Instructors talk feverishly about what to do in such an incident. You can try to prevent them for rushing up but panic instils super human strength in a diver caught in a flee or fight situation which will most likely make them unmanageable or worse could injure you in the process.

The original post didn't sound like a fully blown panic to me. It sounded like what you often see the first time someone takes on a little water in the pool. You know very well that the instructor could have helped him to deal with this and probably leave him with the feeling of having accomplished something. As it is, his buddy wasn't able to help him and he has a hang-over from it from the sounds of it. I really think that's too bad and to me I think that discussing it with the instructor even after the fact may help. At the very least if the guy is told that this is commonplace it may help him put it in some kind of perspective. Instead he's running around with a nagging self-doubt and your advice is to keep it to himself because he's feeling embarrassed. That self-doubt will bite him again. It's better to deal with it openly now than to wait until that happens.

The best resolution is prevention and that requires training. And lots of it. When Murphy shows up, he does not wait until everyone is finished task loading and comfortably swimming along before poping an issue on you.

Well we agree about this but there is sometimes a disconnect between reality and theory. We have to be prepared for reality.

And don't get me going on PADI. In ....snip....

Good. You have a fine opportunity to show us if you have the discipline not to get yourself started about it too. I wasn't talking agencies. I was talking about the psychology of this incident.

 

[TheRedHead]

Am I the only one that is horrified by this?! Instructors popping in and out of the room?! A pool may only be 8 to 15 feet deep, but how can an instructor supervise when not even in the pool, and sometimes not even in the room?!

It is encouraged at my dive shop (from their website):

"The second part of your education takes place in our own heated 15 foot indoor pool. We have a shallow 4 foot ledge for skills instruction. Here you will learn the skills necessary to make scuba a safe and fun activity. Skills are taught at your pace and you don't move on until you are ready. We highly encourage our students to visit us throughout the week to practice in the pool. Some of the skills you will learn in your class include:

Moving in the water with ease

Breathing normally under water

Controlling buoyancy so you descend, ascend, or hover at will

Entering and exiting the water safely

Getting water out of your mask

Of course, you can practice these skills anytime in our indoor, heated pool!"

The owner of The Dive Shop (http://www.diveshop1.com/memphis/education/open_water_lessons.htm) is on SSI's Executive Board of Directors.

 

[jbichsel]

"Trying to surprise me, my hubby randomly swam up to me while I was practicing removing and donning my gear underwater and gave me the "out of air" signal - and out came his reg."

Just wanted to bring up that the way I was taught and the way I teach, the reg stays in the mouth of the OoA diver UNTIL he/she locates and secures the AAS, THEN remove the reg.

Not to add more insult to injury, but if this basic premis was forgotten/taught incorrectly, what else may have been missed?

I agree with additional practice of taught skills, but for uncertified divers, this is supposed to be done under supervision of the instructor.

I would definitely talk with your instructor about this. Sorry to say, but if your husband balks at this, not to be antagonistic but to clarify and get refreshed on the skill, do you really want him as a dive buddy? How would you treat an aquaintance in class that had the same experience, but refused to get clarification or additional time with the instructor to get more skillful?

 

[seok]

I'm an instructor and once had to teach a 10 year old Jr OW. I had this boy practice regulator recovery a few times in shallow water, and because of logistic problem at that time i had to do the rest of the deep water CW skills at about 3-4m. For a small 10 yr old boy that's pretty deep really. He mastered the skills wel in shallow water but I really wanted to make sure that he's ok at deeper water before going out for OW dive. So I decided to repeat the skills in the next CW deep water session. I gave a good briefing on this one and he knew what to do when i signaled. But to my horor, when he tried to purge for clearing he forgot to put his tongue to block the splash guard and swallowed some water, and immediately fight for the surface. I had no choice but to go up with him.. holding on him trying to slow his ascent at the same time making sure he's ok. it was a total nightmare. the most terrifying part is he's holding his breath on the way up! But i was pretty sure he's lung was half empty as he blew bubbles for quite some time at the bottom before shooting up.. only held on the way up. bad enough!! I asked if he's OK once we reached the surface and asked him why such an action he made. He told me he ran out of air in the lung and couldn't think of anything else.

So sometimes it's really difficult for us to judge i think. If i were to hold him down and make him use the reg.. it could have been worse coz he was losing confidence in the reg once he swallowed the water at the point.. and he wouldn't even look at me at that point. i had him practice the skill over and over again in shallow water again before going back down to do the skills again the next day... and reminded him on the consequence of LOI after the class after he felt better. I talked to the parents too.

Everything was fine after and i'm pretty sure he learnt the lesson.. i learnt the lesson too. students could have shown mastery sometimes but once a slight mistake occur they might mess everything up. I'm very alert on simple skill like this now.. in fact simple skill like this could be more far more dangerous than advance skills like r&r weight or scuba.

Anyway at the end of the course he's doing really great and I think teaching kids is really fun. I enjoyed the course a lot... and seeing him diving with his family as a certified JOW is the happiest thing ever

 

[Tommygun53]

Well The way I see it, Your husband has now experienced panic first hand and has had time to think through what happened in his mind. He will probably never do this again and will become a much better diver from this ... Enjoy yourselves

-Tom

 

[Squalus]

I would like to point out that the PADI system does not introduce Buddy Breathing in its curriculm until the Dive Master program.

However, BB is still taught through SSI in the OW course. I do believe that being trained early on with this technique is valuable training. I do not use an Octo on my rig, I am quite comfortable with my Air2 and will gladly give my reg and use the Air2 for myself. As my mentor told me, "a diver will take your primary in most cases because he knows it works you however, need to rely on your alternate air source (Air2) for your source of air".