Reckon I'll just continue with those baaaad habits. Suggest you re-read my post, and read Mike's before you start lambasting everyone who uses a pony.
Rick
Rick
Pony Bottles: Good or bad...where to wear them etc
- Thread starter Frog
- Start date
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I just bought a 19cf pony bottle. I like the idea of a redundant supply of extra air. I got about 15~20 minutes of air at shallow depths (20~25') when playing around with it this weekend.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know it isn't for bebopping around at 100'. When your main tank runs low, you start your ascent. Only difference is you have an ace up your sleeve for emergencies.
Just my 2 cents worth.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know it isn't for bebopping around at 100'. When your main tank runs low, you start your ascent. Only difference is you have an ace up your sleeve for emergencies.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Hey Frog,
I'm just going to add to the confusion here - see I agree to some extent with Tony that ponies belong on racetracks - but I alos think that Rick has a very valid point in backup with students...
My take on it:
I dive with peopel who would never get in the water without a pony and people who ould never consider bringing one...
Some of the reasons given to ring one:
extra safety precaution - ok, piece of mind is one thing - but if you think your regs are going to fail you - get them serviced. And don't forget that if you are going deep - this piece of mind, may not be sufficient to get you up in a safe manner if you get an OOA incident.
Additional air for a troubled student:
This I consider a valid point, it should also be noted that these are likely pretty shallow dives, maybe not much deeper than 60- 70 fsw and in that case the pony would do what it needs.
The argument that one should not rely on more equipment but prepare accordingly:
This is where I land, I do not dive with a pony, my regs are well maintained and of a type that does not tend to freeze up, I also have them maintained on a regular basis so they work well.
Use for Deco stop:
Nope - I'm sorry, if you need a deco bottle - fine - but bring a deco bottle, not your day to day pony, that deco mix should be pretty specific to the depth your are going to (and I think that if we caounted the votes of the peopel who dive Deco - you would likely see pretty similar opinions on using redundant doubles for back gas and deco bottles for specific stops... This is not an application for a pony bottle.
So how did I get on my high horse?
Well, I spent 5 years rescuing idiots out of the backcountry, these were people who figured that if I bring a cell phone to a remote area - I'll be fine - well, for one thing there are no cell towers, secondly, bringing th e cell phone was a very poor excuse for not making sure that you are properly trained and have the right equipment.
I think there is a good reason to think that peopel with Pony bottles may get lulled into a similar false sense of security - and since I'm a trained rescuer - wanna guess who get to haul your ass out of the water, now go think about wether that is what I consider a good day of diving!
So - the end of my soap box stay - Do what you feel comfortable with - but make damn sure you are not just counting on that pony to safe your life - what if you forget to get it filled?
And I did not mean to imply that anyone here are unsafe idiots with ponies - that was just the level of intellect I found with a lot peopel I have picked off mountains in my day.
I firmly believe that the people here have a better level of knowledge and are seeking better information and that your personal way of doing things is equal to or better than mine - I'm here to learn and share my opinions.
Dane (the wet one)
Phew - anyone need a soapbox?
I'm just going to add to the confusion here - see I agree to some extent with Tony that ponies belong on racetracks - but I alos think that Rick has a very valid point in backup with students...
My take on it:
I dive with peopel who would never get in the water without a pony and people who ould never consider bringing one...
Some of the reasons given to ring one:
extra safety precaution - ok, piece of mind is one thing - but if you think your regs are going to fail you - get them serviced. And don't forget that if you are going deep - this piece of mind, may not be sufficient to get you up in a safe manner if you get an OOA incident.
Additional air for a troubled student:
This I consider a valid point, it should also be noted that these are likely pretty shallow dives, maybe not much deeper than 60- 70 fsw and in that case the pony would do what it needs.
The argument that one should not rely on more equipment but prepare accordingly:
This is where I land, I do not dive with a pony, my regs are well maintained and of a type that does not tend to freeze up, I also have them maintained on a regular basis so they work well.
Use for Deco stop:
Nope - I'm sorry, if you need a deco bottle - fine - but bring a deco bottle, not your day to day pony, that deco mix should be pretty specific to the depth your are going to (and I think that if we caounted the votes of the peopel who dive Deco - you would likely see pretty similar opinions on using redundant doubles for back gas and deco bottles for specific stops... This is not an application for a pony bottle.
So how did I get on my high horse?
Well, I spent 5 years rescuing idiots out of the backcountry, these were people who figured that if I bring a cell phone to a remote area - I'll be fine - well, for one thing there are no cell towers, secondly, bringing th e cell phone was a very poor excuse for not making sure that you are properly trained and have the right equipment.
I think there is a good reason to think that peopel with Pony bottles may get lulled into a similar false sense of security - and since I'm a trained rescuer - wanna guess who get to haul your ass out of the water, now go think about wether that is what I consider a good day of diving!
So - the end of my soap box stay - Do what you feel comfortable with - but make damn sure you are not just counting on that pony to safe your life - what if you forget to get it filled?
And I did not mean to imply that anyone here are unsafe idiots with ponies - that was just the level of intellect I found with a lot peopel I have picked off mountains in my day.
I firmly believe that the people here have a better level of knowledge and are seeking better information and that your personal way of doing things is equal to or better than mine - I'm here to learn and share my opinions.
Dane (the wet one)
Phew - anyone need a soapbox?
Lost Yooper
Guest
I'd just like to add that I agree with some here about not relying on ponys. It is my philosophy that your buddy is your redundancy. For more advanced stuff, doubles with a dual outlet valve and isolator are a good idea.
I find that some people have varying definitions of the word pony. I don't call my bottles pony's. They are deco or stage bottles and are not intended for bailout purposes. Some people call their deco bottles pony's and vice versa, so that sometimes leads to confusion.
I find that some people have varying definitions of the word pony. I don't call my bottles pony's. They are deco or stage bottles and are not intended for bailout purposes. Some people call their deco bottles pony's and vice versa, so that sometimes leads to confusion.
100days-a-year
Contributor
Rick,please don't get the opinion that I don't respect the divers right to configure as they like.I was asked a question.At least one of my best buddies dives with an al30 filled with 40% stapped in a pony tamer.I too have some bad habits,like bouncing to 130 to see if there's a reason to spearfish a spot.By and large tho I vigorously defend my stand that it's a bad idea.I agree that people will continue to use them,but perhaps after enough of these threads they'll be less inclined to due so in a manner likely to lead to problems.That is my intent not to be verbally abusive.
OceanSpirit
Guest
Is it just me?
Most training agencies advocate an 'alternative air source'. It is not stated whether this is an octopus rig on a buddy's set-up or a pony. How many of us have looked up and seen our buddy more than a couple of fin kicks away? That's all it is between you and the deep blue. So why not be self-sufficient? I for one am glad that I can look after myself in an out-of-air situation, even if it means just having enough time to locate my buddy and get things sorted. I do *not* feel that this makes me complacent towards emergencies, just more prepared. For those of you who are against a back-up air supply; what are you afraid of?
Most training agencies advocate an 'alternative air source'. It is not stated whether this is an octopus rig on a buddy's set-up or a pony. How many of us have looked up and seen our buddy more than a couple of fin kicks away? That's all it is between you and the deep blue. So why not be self-sufficient? I for one am glad that I can look after myself in an out-of-air situation, even if it means just having enough time to locate my buddy and get things sorted. I do *not* feel that this makes me complacent towards emergencies, just more prepared. For those of you who are against a back-up air supply; what are you afraid of?
Very much not the case! - (prices are approximate)
Twinning bands UK£50
Manifold UK£130
reconfiguring gear for twins UK£50 upto UK£500
Regulator UK£140 (Apeks TX40 on a DST)
Second tank UK£150 - perhaps a bit less as you won't buy it with a valve
Total for twins UK£420 (min) to £870 - upgrading to twins cost me approx £700
For a pony I paid £70 for the bottle, and £140 for another first stage/second stage. - also in general, the reg on the pony isn't usually as good as the main reg although mine is another Apeks. my pony only cost £210 - very different from £700!!!!!
There are places like SDS watersports or divers warehouse in the UK that do complete pony packages for £150 or so. Very much cheeper than going to twins.
I do however agree that in a lot of cases Ponies breed bad diving habits. They are however just one tank in the rack, and you make your choice for each particular dive depending on what the dive objectives are.
Jon T
Ocean Spirit,
I see your point loud and clear - and I think it will work well for a lot of people.
I'm not afraid of you having a pony bottle - be my guest - what bothers me is that a LOT of people (unfortunately Americans rank VERY high on this list) tend to lull themselves into a false sense of security, without proper training and knowledge, I have seen people showing off the small air thingies that have been discussed other threads here and considering them all they would need in case of OOA at depth...
I think what I'm worried about is that there are a lot of people who simply don't bother to get the training and who assume that the amount of equipment will be their savior...
I also think that there are a lot of well trained people who know what they are doing (assuming you are one), and for them it is a workable solution.
I just don't want to advocate to people new to the water that this is the way to go, as I doubt they could obtain enough knowledge to really understand the dangers in a resonable timeframe...
This is just my opinion!
Cheers,
Terkel
I see your point loud and clear - and I think it will work well for a lot of people.
I'm not afraid of you having a pony bottle - be my guest - what bothers me is that a LOT of people (unfortunately Americans rank VERY high on this list) tend to lull themselves into a false sense of security, without proper training and knowledge, I have seen people showing off the small air thingies that have been discussed other threads here and considering them all they would need in case of OOA at depth...
I think what I'm worried about is that there are a lot of people who simply don't bother to get the training and who assume that the amount of equipment will be their savior...
I also think that there are a lot of well trained people who know what they are doing (assuming you are one), and for them it is a workable solution.
I just don't want to advocate to people new to the water that this is the way to go, as I doubt they could obtain enough knowledge to really understand the dangers in a resonable timeframe...
This is just my opinion!
Cheers,
Terkel
greg somers
Guest
I don't ever plan to take one diving with me...Give me a trained responsible buddy anytime.These can be hard to find but are well worth the investment.Horses make useless dive companions.But if you guys still insist on trying then please try to get a pair of goggles that will go all the way around the ponies head.Stay Smart,stay safe and stay in the water....
shaneevans1
Registered
have a nice day!! :10:
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