Pony bottle vs. Spare Air?

[Web Monkey]

For recreational ice diving, you should be with a buddy and a frozen reg, while seriously sucking, should just be a nice calm assent to the hole with your buddy.

"Recreational Ice Diving"? Is that like "Recreational Cave Diving?"

In extremely cold water, if you have a freeflow and share air with your buddy, all it means is that now there's a really good chance that you both have freeflows.

Terry

 

[DandyDon]

Looks like this thread may live thru Groundhog Day.

Remember the movie...?

 

[northen diver]

"Recreational Ice Diving"? Is that like "Recreational Cave Diving?"

In extremely cold water, if you have a freeflow and share air with your buddy, all it means is that now there's a really good chance that you both have freeflows.

Terry

Bingo..........

 

[northen diver]

Lots of people make that choice and there's nothing wrong with it.



Quick question about your story -- if he's spitting out your reg, would he not also have been spitting out a pony bottle reg? And if he was on a pony, would you have been right next to him to hold the reg in his mouth? It sounds like his life may well have been saved by an alert buddy who was RIGHT THERE because he wasn't using a pony. Which is something that using a buddy's reg enforces.

Really glad to hear you're ok!

I was the one with the pony slung to. When I ice dive, one rope per teams of two. I have two short teethers that are 6 feet long that the caribiner is hooked too at the main rope. This way, one line tender per two divers, less intanglements from cross ropes, and the buddies are forced to stay together within the teethers of 6 feet that are attached to the main line. My buddy did in fact spit out the bail out reg that I gave him and my main reg. But my point is that he free flowed, and without the bail out bottle, we would had been forced to share my back gas, we are both breathing heavy from stress and we could of very well free flowed my reg from the extra demand. Everyone needs to dive within their training and comfort zone, regardless what some of the agencies are teaching. For me, common sense comes to mind. I WONT dive ice without at least one bail out bottle per buddy team and I WONT dive a wreck without a bail out bottle AND a stage bottle. Thats my comfort zone.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Thats my comfort zone.

And I have no problem with that! Indeed, I specifically note that I think everyone needs to dive within their training and accepted risk level, and that the most important thing to do is to be able to have some awareness of what you know and what you don't know.

As long as you're ok accepting the risks you take, and you're in a situation where you are as fully aware of those risk as possible, then it seems to me that people have the right to do what they want.

I do most of my ice diving in a lake that has a maximum depth of 30', we simply don't play out 100' of rope to start with. 50' of rope is lot for us. So the conditions sound quite different.

Where I in a situation where I was going to be 100' from the hole, my configuration would change. I personally believe that the distance to one's exit point is the cu. ft. of air needed for a safe dive. So I wouldn't be out 100' with a single 80 either.

But frankly, I'm also not comfortable enough under the ice to be 100' from the hole at this point in my dive life. That's beyond one of my limits.

 

[northen diver]

And I have no problem with that! Indeed, I specifically note that I think everyone needs to dive within their training and accepted risk level, and that the most important thing to do is to be able to have some awareness of what you know and what you don't know.

As long as you're ok accepting the risks you take, and you're in a situation where you are as fully aware of those risk as possible, then it seems to me that people have the right to do what they want.

I do most of my ice diving in a lake that has a maximum depth of 30', we simply don't play out 100' of rope to start with. 50' of rope is lot for us. So the conditions sound quite different.

Where I in a situation where I was going to be 100' from the hole, my configuration would change. I personally believe that the distance to one's exit point is the cu. ft. of air needed for a safe dive. So I wouldn't be out 100' with a single 80 either.

But frankly, I'm also not comfortable enough under the ice to be 100' from the hole at this point in my dive life. That's beyond one of my limits.

You with the 160th SOG?. Pilot or ground pounder? ............

 

[Kingpatzer]

Started out enlisted, ended up a WO

 

[Seashadow]

Spare Air at dept below 80 ft. You are lucky to get two breaths before empty. Tested coming up from the HMS Yukon and due to gas compression in such a small cylinder it was good for two breaths. So If you do lots of deep diving I reccomend a bigger bottle say a 13cuft or 19cuft. The separate regulator is a moot issue, anything is cool if secured properly. Most cavers and wreck rats know this to be true, the tech side tends to learn to stream line redundency.

 

[pt40fathoms]

The common theme we seem to have here, regarding Ice Diving, is that a bail out bottle is a good idea, and that a Spare Air would not be enough to get the job done.

Buy a pony, about 13 to 20cu, and forget the cool toys (aka Spare Air). If you need the air, at least make sure you carry enough to get the job done right.

 

[DandyDon]

I do have a problem when I first arrive at some sites and need my pony filled. Like in Cozumel, where large shops run their compressors twice a day, small shops take tanks to a central station, I usually get there too late to catch a fill the first day. I don't want to buy a whip filler, would like to find an easy way to hook up two first stages so I can fill the pony mostly full from another tank...?