Pony bottle setup/config

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

jepuskar once bubbled...
I never really considered mounting the pony on my side..the whole idea seems kind of foreign to me...looking at a 13cf tank...i'm sure it is no big deal though.

thanks for sharing your experiences.

jason

The main thing is make sure a 13cuft tank will be enough for you from your deeper dives should you need it. I dont now about you but my pony bottle was never filled up to the 3000psi capacity.So also calcualte a short fill into your equation if you think you will have a tough time getting your pony filled completely each time.Mine ussually averaged around 2800 psi after cool down.You would think you could get them to overfill by a few hundred psi for cool down but oh no...........:D
 
I'm curious here Jep ol' buddy ol' pal - where you goin' with the pony? You said it was for an upcoming trip...

It's my impression that traveling with any kind of tank is a real pain in the ass. They have to be somewhat disassembled to even be put onto airplanes, if they're even allowed now... anyone know?????

If you're going to a warm-water destination, most people I know don't feel that a pony is necessary unless you're going really deep (perhaps beyond recreational limits) or into overhead environments... what kind of diving you planning on doing?
 
yo yo,

Tanks are allowed in your checked in luggage, as long as they are not filled and as far as I know, disassembled. I believe it is best if you let the airline people know as you check the luggage in...with no air in it and the top off..it is just a piece of aluminum.

Going to Bonaire at the end of September......my LDS has had a 13cf pony sitting on their show room floor and I have been eyeing it up..been to Bonaire twice before without a pony..no problems at all...but I do plan on doing several dives past 60-70 feet......

I really don't understand why some people frown on this kind of a redundancy. I am not expecting any problems......sometimes I think it is because they feel insecure about their own diving practices that they must lash out to make themselves feel better about the way they dive. Maybe they realize it is a good idea, but they haven't implemented it yet due to cost or laziness? Who knows.....

I take my safety very seriously and knowing there is another independant air source that is attached to me...well, I think thats just great. People can criticize and stereotype all they want, but they just do more harm than good. SCUBA diving is not a competitive sport..at least not in my eyes.
 
jepuskar once bubbled...

I really don't understand why some people frown on this kind of a redundancy. I am not expecting any problems......sometimes I think it is because they feel insecure about their own diving practices that they must lash out to make themselves feel better about the way they dive. Maybe they realize it is a good idea, but they haven't implemented it yet due to cost or laziness? Who knows.....
A pony bottle is not true redundancy.

The people who are insecure with their diving practices are the same ones who buy pony bottles. I'm not trying to sound mean, but this is just how it is.

If you manage your gas properly, practice/dive with a good buddy and dive your plan, you don't need a pony bottle. Technical divers do not carry pony bottles. Why? Because they plan and train properly...pony bottles are not needed nor are they the best solution to an OOG stituation.

No one is trying to make themselves feel better about anything. Pony bottles are not a real solution and that is simply a fact.

Sorry, it's not a good idea. It has nothing to do with cost or laziness, it's about going with the safest and most efficient solution.

However, if having a pony bottle makes you feel better while diving, go for it. Do what you feel comfortable with. I can respect your decision either way. I just thought you should know both sides to the pony bottle debate before spending your hard earned cash.

Dive Safe
 
jepuskar once bubbled...
Hi,

I am going to purchase either a 13cf or a 19cf pony bottle to use on my upcoming dive trip. I have already decided on mounting it to my main tank and have a couple questions regarding the next steps.
The first response has to be: don't do it. The second would be: why not go with a 40cf tank? They don't cost any more and are a whole lot more functional. Unless you're thinking you might need a big argon tank someday when you get into mixed gas diving?
I am going with the Aeris small HP pressure gauge for psi monitoring, but what about the reg setup? What should I do about the regs? Is there a cheap option for a first/2nd stage for this purpose.
First response: this is life support equipment and you're looking for cheap options? Yikes. Second response: get something decent that's environmentally sealed so it will work after you drag it through the mud and that can be detuned so that you won't have it free-flowing everytime you jump in the water or bang the bottom.
Also, on a side note...would it be worth while to mount a a 2nd reg coming off of that pony on the back of my main tank with a 5-7 foot long hose....so if my buddy was OOA and I was swimming away or had my back to them..then an airsource would be closer to them...or is this just being a stroke?
Stroke? Pony bottle = stroke. It's way too late to start worrying about whether or not people will think you're a stroke. Sling the tank like a stage bottle, set it up with a single second-stage regulator on a 40 (ish) inch hose. You can unclip the bottle and hand it off to a dying buddy, if you need to.
Also, how bout trim...is it just a matter of countering the weight of the pony by moving some weight to the opposite side of your body than the pony is on?
Trim comes in three versions: pitch, roll and yaw. You will find that the pony (no matter where you mount it) will affect all three. The only way to fix the weight problem is to counter-balance it somehow. The drag problem is somewhat different and almost impossible to correct. Slung like a stage it's easier to manage, especially if you go with a 40cf tank. Strapped to your back it's a lot harder since the weight and the drag are going to be offset more from your center of gravity (and towards the top instead of the bottom) and away from your slipstream.
I really don't understand why some people frown on this kind of a redundancy. I am not expecting any problems......sometimes I think it is because they feel insecure about their own diving practices that they must lash out to make themselves feel better about the way they dive. Maybe they realize it is a good idea, but they haven't implemented it yet due to cost or laziness? Who knows.....

Then, again, maybe it's because we've been there, done that and have the experience to know it's a bad idea. Remember the old joke about what to do when someone calls you a horse's ass? The first guy that says it should expect a pop in the nose. After the tenth guy says it you should consider buying a saddle.

Come on down to Haigh Quarry this Saturday and I'll let you play with some of my extra stuff. I'll be there very early and have to leave by noon, but I've got a bunch of little tanks and regulators you can play with, including a 13cf and a 40cf. Tina can tell you where I'll be if you show up.

So, where you headed on this trip and are you ever going to join us for a dive in Lake Michigan?

Steven
 
Hi Jepuskar,

I use a pony tank for some dives.
Those are when I'm going solo, when I'm assisting on a AOW deep dive, or when I am diving below 60ft or so buddied with a stranger. The last case I try to avoid, but sometimes on a boat that's not possible. These are all situations where I don't have a reliable buddy.

If I am diving with a good buddy I agree with a lot of people here that pony tanks are more trouble than they're worth.

Anyway, my experience is that a 19cf pony and a 13cf pony doesn't differ much in terms of handling, which is why I use a 19cf. The pony adds 2lbs of negative buoyancy to one side, but it's not that noticable. If it bothers you, you can shift your weight a little to the other side to balance it.
FYI, I've seen calculations by various people that conclude that 19cf is the least you will need if you want to bail out from 100ft with a reasonable margin.

I use a tank mount bracket called Tigermount that attaches to the tank strap and can be detached for handing off and for changing tanks. If you decide to go for a tank mount, I highly recommend this, although it's a bit expensive. ($144?) You can order it direct from the manufacturer if your local store doesn't have it. Try doing a search on Google. I usually just leave the tank strap bracket on my BCD all the time, and don't really notice it unless I'm using it. If you go with something that's not detachable, it's going to be a pain when you try to change tanks between dives. I've been through that.

When underwater, it's fairly easy to pull out the pin and hand the pony to anyone if needed.

As for slinging, it does seem like a clean solution, but I personally prefer not to have something slung in front of me because I sometimes carry a camera.

Hope that helped a little.
 
For a number of reasons, my personal minimum is 30CF for a pony used as a redundant gas supply. (That is "redundant" from 30CF back gas on down for you hair splitters).
Protestations that "pony=stroke" and the like (along with any mind-reading characterizations of the motives of pony bottle users) are total BS and should be ignored.
Personal preferences (in addiditon to the 30CF minimum) of mine include:
Regulator - identical to my primary
Carriage - slung as a stage (left)
Second stage on 40" hose
SPG - full size (on a 7" hose)
Valve management (carriage) - charged but off
Rick
 
Here we go again. There are plenty of pro's and cons diving solo, and believe it or not, there are cons of diving buddy ( yes, there really are !).

I got a 20cft pony, and love the redundancy. I do need to balance my rig, and need about 1 1/2 pounds to balance it out when I have my pony strapped on the side of the main tank.

I got a pressure gauge on it too. Even though I could turn off the valve, I dont like the idea of adding more tasks in a OOA situation, it should be quick and effortless IMHO ( but again, there are others who prefer to to close the valve down ). I give a short burst on the spare reg 2x during the dive whilst looking at the SPG to make sure it is live and full. ( paranoid...yeh ! )
 
Jason,
I dove with a 19cuft back mounted for a while. I never worried about an SPG for it, because I would have to either route it forward and possibly get in the way of other things, or just not be able to see it. Instead of an SPG, I made sure to hook up my primary reg setup to the bottle before I dove, to check the pressure of the bottle. The fact of the matter, in my mind at least, was that if I ever went to the pony, it was a serious mistake, and I'm now working on my bonus life. In other words... I didn't care how much gas was left in the tank as long as it was full when I started the dive. It was there to get me out of the water, and I don't need to know the pressure to know if it's going to get me out of the water... I'll find out if it does or it doesn't.

I tried a number of different methods to back mount the bottle. I was never comfortable with it mounted right-side up, because there was absolutely no chance I'd be able to reach the valve. Since I was using my old cheap first and second stage on it, I didn't want it to freeflow at depth or anything, so I wanted to keep it charged but off. So I opted for it to be rigged upside-down, where I could easily reach the valve and I could have the second stage bungeed to the tank, with the regulator right by the valve [turn it on, grab the reg, pull it to me].

The problem however was I never found a really decent mounting method. I tried a number of systems, and finally settled on the Q-Connect by Kohr, which in it's own right was great, but it still wasn't ideal. You'll have to weigh the difference between the convenience of a quick connect method that attaches to your tank band, or a more permanent method that attaches to your tank itself. The attached to the tank itself makes it tough for travelling, and tough for changing between dives. Making it attach to the band makes it a little more floppy.

When I changed over to a BP & Wings, Instead of one center strap, I ended up with two straps. Trying to choose which strap to attach it to was difficult. Neither would allow me to get a good balance point on the bottle to mount it upside down. I ended up needing to mount it right side up to limit the flop. However that took me back to square one with me wanting to dive it with the valve off. So that's when I went to a stage rigging... and then a larger bottle as I calculated ascent rates and stops that I wanted to do for safety, making sure I didn't have to compromise my safety with slow ascents and longer safety stops for something simple as not a large enough bailout bottle.

Now with the larger bottle, and the SPG in an accessible location, the SPG is a little more useful in that I can start my ascent as soon as I have to switch to that bottle, and then do the stops and ascent rates that I would normally do, and leave 15 feet with a nice tank pressure like 500 psi.

I definately wouldn't concern yourself with two regs. The situation where both of you have problems and _both_ have to use one small bottle to get up is extremely unlikely. I would rather suggest that you fashion a method where one second stage would work for your use, and also be usable by an OOA buddy. A 40" hose should work for that. I actually really like the stage rigged bottles for this sort of situation. You can put your buddy on your alternate source off your primary tank, get them relaxed. Then turn on the bailout bottle, clip it off to them, and then you both can ascend without being tethered together and running a risk of getting in each others way.

As far as trim goes...This comes down to what you have for a BC. With a jacket BC I needed a 2 lb trim weight with my 19. When I switched to my BP and wings and the stage bottle setup, I strapped that 2lb weight to my backplate. However I found after I removed the gossets on my dive rite wing, there wasn't anything aside of water pressure compressing the air in my wing. This made it so when I shifted my body to be trim in the water, air shifted over to my left side and compensated for the extra weight on that side. It's nice like that, because if I use any of the gas in that bottle, the trim-compensating air will just shift and keep me trim. If I need to hand the bottle off to my buddy; I don't have trim issues the other direction by a weight that doesn't have a balance on the other side. I've never actually dove a back inflate BC, so I can't confirm if a back inflate BC has the same shifting properties as an un-bungied wing does; but it might.

As to everyone else in this thread. Not everyone has the luxury of having good regular buddies. And even those that do still have separate lives from their buddies and won't always be on the same vacation. People often say "just don't dive", but you can do one of two things... deal with the situation your in, get out, dive, get experience and improve your own skills, or sit on your ass talking about diving on the computer because you don't have anyone you can buddy with. I personally have a group of buddies that I will use for the more challenging dives. I then have a group of people that I will dive more simple stuff with. When I dive with a relatively new person, I prefer to have myself completely self-sufficent, so that
I can focus on taking care of them and making sure they are safe, and they don't have to be destracted by making sure I'm ok... they can focus on getting themselves more comfortable under the water. Yes, I will take a bailout bottle on any dive over 60 feet with someone that I've not dove with or someone that I know isn't necessarily comfortable at that depth. And besides, the way I rig my bailout, and the size that the bailout is, taking it in the water as a bailout also gives me the side benefit of practicing the same setup I would have if I was doing staged deco diving.

It's really a matter of getting all the pros and cons, and deciding which pros you like enough to compensate for which cons.
 

Back
Top Bottom