Pony Bottle & octopus

[The Chad]

Yeah, it's pretty simple. Dive with one reg in your mouth. Your octo off that same tank secured to the triangle area PADI taught you to secure it (the triangle between your chin and and lower ribs on each side.) Then have the pony reg secured against the pony tank with a bungee

 

[Diveral]

I have 2 bands of surgical tubing wrapped around my pony. One 1/4 down from the top and 1 1/4 up from the bottom. I loop my pony reg and hose between the two bands in a quick draw fashion so that I just have to grab the reg and pull and the hose comes out of the bungee. Hose is charged and valve is off for me.

AL

 

[ClayJar]

The original poster asked if it was necessary to have it and the answer is no there is no reason for safety to have it plain and simple.

If you believe that, you have such a distinctly different concept of safety that we are likely completely incompatible divers. I have attempted to convey reasons why I dive with a pony and octo, and you choose to discount them out of hand without comment on the merits or lack thereof.

I guess you must have OOA on most your dives but I myself in real life have never had to share air.

Actually, I have not once gone OOA. I *have* had a yoke face O-ring blow. As it was quite early in the dive, I simply continued breathing from my rapidly depleting back gas while I made my way to the surface, at which point I reached behind myself and shut off the valve. Had it been later in the dive, it would've been no real problem, although I may have had to go to an alternate air supply of some sort. As we practice air sharing regularly, it would have been but a minor inconvenience.

Do you have all those hoses on retractors also?

My backplate and wing rig has no retractors. Somehow, I don't think you were really interested in that, however. You were more likely trying to impugn my diving skills in order that I would look like a newbie. I refuse to stoop to that level.

 

[jtivat]

If I'm out diving the Gulf on a two-tank dive, I don't have a way of refilling the pony for the second dive. I could transfill from my second tank, but that may not get enough air in the pony for the second dive's depth, and it would (obviously) consume a portion of my back gas. I find it quite reasonable to go to an alternate second stage air-sharing ascent when possible in order to conserve the redundancy for the second dive (which I'd certainly make if it were something as simple as, say, a yoke O-ring blowing at depth).

Well if this is the reason you gave this is more of a convenience to still make a second dive with a half full pony no real safety advantage just don't do the second dive.

Maybe I missed it but how is that second octo going to help besides cluttering up your rig and adding a spot for loss of gas or getting hung up on something.

 

[ClayJar]

Well if this is the reason you gave this is more of a convenience to still make a second dive with a half full pony no real safety advantage just don't do the second dive.

I mean this with utter sincerity, and I mean no disrespect, but I can't quite figure out exactly what you were trying to say here. As close as I can tell, it sounds like you were saying something like:

"Making a second dive is simply a convenience. If a half-full pony is no real safety advantage, just don't do the second dive."

If that is indeed what you meant (if I am mistaken, feel free to rephrase), it would actually validate my position. I consider having a full pony a safety advantage. Wanting to preserve that safety advantage for a second dive in the event of what I perceive to be a certain common, non-compounding failure modes is a valid reason for carrying two back-gas-connected second stages.

"You can just skip the second dive" is hardly an effective counterpoint. It is as absurd a position as if someone claimed you never need to clean your regs, as if they fail, you can just skip the second dive. You can always choose to skip a dive, but having procedures to lessen the chance that a gear failure will scrub a dive is a good thing, is it not?

Maybe I missed it but how is that second octo going to help besides cluttering up your rig and adding a spot for loss of gas or getting hung up on something.

I have two second stages on my back gas and one on my pony. If I or my buddy suffer a failure of our back gas, we share the other's back gas using the alternate second stage. We would not use the pony unless there was an additional unforeseen problem precluding a standard back-gas-sharing ascent.

By executing a standard air-sharing ascent and not using the pony, if the problem precipitating the air share can be solved on the surface interval (such as would certainly be the case if it were a yoke face O-ring -- you wouldn't use the same tank the second dive), the second dive can be made with the pony in pristine condition, completely filled and ready. It would then be available in case some unforeseen problem precludes a standard back-gas-sharing ascent on the following dive(s).

Basically, when diving with a known dependable buddy, I consider the pony as something only to be used in the event of a cascading failure. Any single failure could be handled by standard practices, and the pony would remain as "backup to the backup". In the event that the pony is called upon due to a cascading failure, diving is over until the multiple failures can be addressed and the pony can be brought back to operational capability. It is a more conservative way to dive, but I am likely somewhat more risk-averse than some (or perhaps, I simply think too far).

 

[RJP]

I understand that but the point remains that you aren't compelled to do a second dive so the extra stage is a matter of convenience, not safety.

Hell, you aren't compelled to do the FIRST dive. Therefore ALL dive gear is a matter of convenience!

 

[ReefHound]

Hell, you aren't compelled to do the FIRST dive. Therefore ALL dive gear is a matter of convenience!

To the person that doesn't dive, that is true.

 

[jtivat]

I mean this with utter sincerity, and I mean no disrespect, but I can't quite figure out exactly what you were trying to say here. As close as I can tell, it sounds like you were saying something like:

"Making a second dive is simply a convenience. If a half-full pony is no real safety advantage, just don't do the second dive."

If that is indeed what you meant (if I am mistaken, feel free to rephrase), it would actually validate my position. I consider having a full pony a safety advantage. Wanting to preserve that safety advantage for a second dive in the event of what I perceive to be a certain common, non-compounding failure modes is a valid reason for carrying two back-gas-connected second stages.

"You can just skip the second dive" is hardly an effective counterpoint. It is as absurd a position as if someone claimed you never need to clean your regs, as if they fail, you can just skip the second dive. You can always choose to skip a dive, but having procedures to lessen the chance that a gear failure will scrub a dive is a good thing, is it not?

I have two second stages on my back gas and one on my pony. If I or my buddy suffer a failure of our back gas, we share the other's back gas using the alternate second stage. We would not use the pony unless there was an additional unforeseen problem precluding a standard back-gas-sharing ascent.

By executing a standard air-sharing ascent and not using the pony, if the problem precipitating the air share can be solved on the surface interval (such as would certainly be the case if it were a yoke face O-ring -- you wouldn't use the same tank the second dive), the second dive can be made with the pony in pristine condition, completely filled and ready. It would then be available in case some unforeseen problem precludes a standard back-gas-sharing ascent on the following dive(s).

Basically, when diving with a known dependable buddy, I consider the pony as something only to be used in the event of a cascading failure. Any single failure could be handled by standard practices, and the pony would remain as "backup to the backup". In the event that the pony is called upon due to a cascading failure, diving is over until the multiple failures can be addressed and the pony can be brought back to operational capability. It is a more conservative way to dive, but I am likely somewhat more risk-averse than some (or perhaps, I simply think too far).

This may work for you but it does not change the fact that the OP does not need an octo on his main tank. If he does only use one second stage on each tank then yes in that 1 in 500 (not sure its a real # but I hope it is at least that high) chance he does use the pony he will have to sit out a second dive or switch his regs and dive one tank.

I did mis read your earlier post as I thought you where using your pony first to share air.

 

[ClayJar]

This may work for you but it does not change the fact that the OP does not need an octo on his main tank. If he does only use one second stage on each tank then yes in that 1 in 500 (not sure its a real # but I hope it is at least that high) chance he does use the pony he will have to sit out a second dive or switch his regs and dive one tank.

I can concur with that, with a notation. Is it necessary to have an additional "octo" second stage on his back gas? Assuming he is content to dive without a pony, it is not. If he used the pony such that it would not be adequate for an air-sharing ascent on the second dive, he could always swap the pony's second stage to his back gas first stage in order to dive a "traditional octo" setup with back gas only.

If he wants to preserve the pony gas in case of a simple failure, so as to have it available on a second dive, then it would be "necessary" to have an "octo" on his back gas, as would also be the case if he wanted to deal with compounding failures. At that point, however, it becomes an internal philosophical question of why he is diving a pony.

(For me, personally, not having the "octo" reduces my perception of the usefulness of a pony to unsustainable levels, but I am certainly not every diver.)

I did mis read your earlier post as I thought you where using your pony first to share air.

Not a problem. (Glad I'm not completely dense... I'd need a dual-bladder wing. )

 

[Noviz]

Can anybody answer this please?? :huh: :huh:

Actually, you can do whatever you like! I think a pony with a bungied second is better than no pony at all. I'd have it "charged and off" if the bottle isn't visible, and I'd personally keep it upsidedown with the second right next to the valve. See if you can find a spot where it is easy to reach with either hand.