Pony bottle hooked to Air 2

[JimC]

Your pony should be completely seperate from your rig so you can hand it off, or dich it.

Set it up as a stage bottle, its small, wonl't get in your way and the reg is tucked into the strap on it. This gives you 3 second stages so you have even more redundancy. If you have to carry a pony, why would you want to loose some of the benifits of it?


Now, lets take this on a few dives.

You use some of your pony for boyance.. do you get it toped up after the dive? No, im on a boat.
Next dive you use some more.. Top it up.. naw, that will cost me a few bucks.
..

6 dives later, you still havent toped it up, and have an OOA. Now you donate your large, back gas to your buddy, and go to your air2.. contected to your partialy drained, small pony bottle. You happen to be at 130fsw.. Do you have a problem?

When you need it, you loose access to your larger back gas as your budde now has the only reg attached to it. So you are left with your partialy drained pony bottle, which may not even be close to full depending on how diligent you are.

 

[Soggy]

JimC:

Thank you...that was a very helpful and informative post and I can now see why it is a bad idea.

 

[MikeFerrara]

For a redundant suply with its own reg and the simplicity of having only two second stages, my money is on an H-valve or manifolded doubles. I want redundancy in my primary supply (back gas). This lends itself best to established gas management techniques and self rescue. IMO, anything else is a patch and one should address the issue causing the perceived need. I will spare you my opinion of the air2 and all similar devices. But a question, have you tried dealing with an OOA diver (who is not in the best of moods) and controling an ascent with your BC control clamped between your teeth? I have seen it. It was entertaining. Everyone lived, but it was close.

 

[JimC]

Just to add a bit more to Mike Ferrara's comment:

H Valve $150
+ Second first stage $100+
(You already have 2 second stages.. I hope)

Pony (19cf) $100
+ K Valve $50
+ Pony Mount or Stage Rig $50 - $120
+ Second first stage $100+
+ Third second stage $100+
+ PSG (if you want one)

not only is it cheaper, but it gives you redundancy where you want it.. your back gas.

 

[DiveTub]

Originally posted by AaronBBrown


How would it not be redundant? I have a completely second regulator and a completely redundant second stage. The only difference is I would be inflating/deflating my BC from the pony.

When diving with an air2, the common practice for sharing air with your buddy, is passing the primary reg, and breathing off the air2. That wouldn't change if the pony were hooked up to an air2.

Why would you want to have the hassel of your buddy breathing off you Main and you off your Air 2 in an emergency ? all hooked up together.

Just give him your Pony !!


Also the Reg on your pony is going to be, I would hope of better quality than an Air2, so breathing is going to be also easier , at depth in an Out Of Air situation , I know what I would rather breath off.

Why waste Air inflating your BCD from a small Pont, you may need all the air you can get out of it in an emergency.

 

[MuddyFox]

The H-Valve route isn't always the cheapest route.

For example, here we have club tanks. Therefore I don't own my own. In order to have an h-valve I would have to purchase my own tanks. A typical day of diving here involves two tanks.

Therefore I would buy:

2 Tanks at $200+ a piece = $400+
2 H-Valves at $150+ a piece = $300+
1 1st stage = $100+

Total = $800+


Pony bottle route:

1 tank with k-valve = $100+
Stage Rigging = $50 (not more than $50)
1 1st stage = $100+
1 2nd stage = $100+

Total = $350+

In reality I already have multiple regulator sets so the cost for myself would be $700 for H-valve set-ups vs. $150 for pony bottle.

Although I would prefer the H-valve solution, it's not in my budget.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think...If you use less than optimum equipment and methods for the planned dive because of money you are starting down a very dangerous road. As you add depth or time to a dive the cost goes way up. There is no short cut. You will get the best bang for the buck by getting the right stuff from the start.

 

[SPEEDSTER]

MikeF is right, if you're going to put your life on the line with this gear, money should not be an issue. Also, your situation is probably different than most...that is you have access to community tanks. Most people have to buy their own stuff, in which case you would have your pony costs, plus the costs for the main back tank, valve, etc, and be at the same cost as your H valve total.

Mike

 

[MuddyFox]

... I'd carry a balloon with a straw for my back up.

I've read all the debates, no need to start the pony vs. h-valve debate again. I have concluded that it is a perfectly acceptable solution. I wouldn't trade safety to save money. If I thought that way, I wouldn't consider adding any additional redundance than my octo.

"I think...If you use less than optimum equipment and methods for the planned dive because of money you are starting down a very dangerous road."

In that case we better all buy Apeks regs.

 

[MikeS]

Money is always an issue and anyone that thinks otherwise is either very naive or living in a fantasy world. If money is not an issue, hell, I’ll preposition a habitat at the wreck site so if anything goes wrong I can just swim inside. I’ll also have a surface support ship on site with a compression chamber and an evacuation helicopter warmed up and ready to go during the dive.

Money is always an issue and diving is inherently risky. The key is to mitigate the risk to a point that you feel making the dive is worth the risk. And while I greatly respect Mike Ferrara’s opinion, others that I respect just as much would argue that a pony bottle is a better solution than an h-valve.

But lets look at the cost.

Sling mounted 30 cf pony with Apex DS4-TX40 and suunto SPG $400. Just bought one.

Two HP 120 steel tanks with H-valves with Apex DS4-TX40 and suunto SPG $1000. Need to tanks for 2-tank boat dives.

What about traveling? I can take the valve off the pony and take it as checked baggage, can’t do that practically, with HP 120s. Can I rent tanks with H-valves, probably not. Can I put my H-valves on rental tanks, probably not. But wait, money is not an issue, I’ll charter my own plane!

Mike

P.S.

Considered the balloon/straw approach as cost containment measure but decided against it due to potential buoyancy problems. The work around, taking two balloons and exhaling into the second to maintain constant buoyancy seemed too cumbersome.