Pony Attachment

[Splash-X]

This topic is just like many others, Split Fin vs Any Fin, Online vs LDS, BP/W vs Jacket vs Hybrid, the list goes on and on.

The reason these topics keep coming up over and over again is that there is no final right and wrong way, all of these equipment choices are just that, choices. While there may be points that make one gear configuration better suited for certain cituations no one piece of gear is going to meet every single need all the time.

The best we can hope for is that someone does use the search function, combs the threads related to the gear they are intrested in and build a Pro vs Con list and decide which piece of gear is best for THEIR situation.

Like I said, telling someone "slinging a bottle is the way to go" has no real value unless there is fact or scenario behind it.

 

[DaleC]

If you want to monitor your pony gas while diving, it's a simple matter of using an SPG with a hose rather than a mini-gauge.

If you can't remount your pony after you remove it from the quick release, let your buddy carry it..........that's probably why you removed it anyway.

Yes, rigging a SPG will work and I know someone who does that. They don't plan on handing it off though. In that case (handing off) one would need a bungie around the tank itself so the SPG HP hose could be tucked into it or it would be flopping around.

I don't really see a need for handing off (myself) but one thing I like about a slung bottle is that it has bolt snaps on it (2). If another diver needs the bottle I/they can just snap it onto one of their chest d rings and be hands free for whatever else needs doing. And bolt snaps work on any rig.


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A point to note with a single computer running multiple AI sensors is that one failure (the receiver) leaves the diver with no way to monitor any of the volumes in any of his/her tanks. That's relatively OK (ish) in a simple rec dive profile (where one can immediately ascend) but could be disaster in something more complicated. So a multi sensor AI computer is an expensive solution for only the simplest of dives.

I have done the pro/con list as Splash x notes and agree with his suggestion. By doing so yourself you are forced to think about how the systems work and their failure points.

My criterion is as follows:

Does it work
Is it reliable
Is it simple
Is it rugged
Is it transferable (can it be used on multiple systems or by multiple divers).

The first three are straight forward. Transferable to me doesn't really mean that something can be handed off but rather that a single diver will use it consistantly regardless of the type of diving they are doing (thus creating familiarity with its use) and that other divers can easily understand and utilize it.

These points will make themselves most apparent when things go bad.

 

[drdaddy]

Yeah, he has some pre-concieved notions that a slung pony would be difficult, or in the way of his dive. He hasn't given thought to portability and use at differing dive locations, entanglement hazards, hose routing, and real-world use.

I own both sling and tank mounted 19 cuft (and a couple of 13 cuft for shallow dives) ponies. In real life situations, I believe that a person will just grab for whatever they can get. Since they are out of air, they will have difficulty inflating their BCD for ascending to the surface, so it is likely that I will be controlling buoyancy and hopefully calming my divebuddy. I really don't intend to hand off a pony to anyone. In all actuality, the pony bottle is for me in case of failure of my primary system. Hopefully, I won't be careless in monitoring my air.

I do a lot of hunting and crabbing, which takes me to the bottom. I have found that the slung pony is in the way and gets all scratched up.

With my 19 cuft tank (upside down) mounted pony, all is out of the way. While I can turn it on and off while it is mounted, I dive with it on so that there is no messing around in a panic. The secondary is on a long hose (loose hose bungie corded to tank) with a parallel hose/pressure gauge attached so I can read it. This hose can be handed off, or they can grab either my main secondary (from my mouth) or octopus. I will then grab their vest, calm them (if necessary) with eye contact and "OK" signal, and then I'll calmly manuever them to the surface. I might even breath a little air into their BCD, but I'd probably wait until the surface. If they freak out - well, there are some ways of getting free and they are on their own without air - but, at least by the book, they'll be OK once they have air and are doing a controlled ascent with their buddy.

I do loan my sling to buddies, if they want it, when we are doing deep dives.

Please tell us under what situation would you hand a pony bottle off to a OOA buddy and not accompany them?

 

[DaleC]

I'm not criticizing your decisions (sounds like you thought about them) but for discussion sake regarding your last question:

Hand off to an OOA and become seperated by strong current.

Hand off to an OOA who panics and does an uncontrolled bouyant ascent anyways.

Hand off to an entangled diver while you go for assistance.

 

[WD8CDH]

One thing to consider when rigging backup air is your buddy. If I am diving with a clueless idiot, I just might want to sling a pony (maybe a second one) to hand off.

If I am diving with a responsible buddy that I trust, we will both have our own backup gas and I will keep my backup gas attached to my back rig. Of course, with multiple failures, I can still share with my long hose regulator or even buddy breathe.

 

[UaVaj]

I do a lot of hunting and crabbing, which takes me to the bottom. I have found that the slung pony is in the way and gets all scratched up.

With my 19 cuft tank (upside down) mounted pony, all is out of the way. While I can turn it on and off while it is mounted, I dive with it on so that there is no messing around in a panic. The secondary is on a long hose (loose hose bungie corded to tank) with a parallel hose/pressure gauge attached so I can read it. This hose can be handed off, or they can grab either my main secondary (from my mouth) or octopus. I will then grab their vest, calm them (if necessary) with eye contact and "OK" signal, and then I'll calmly manuever them to the surface. I might even breath a little air into their BCD, but I'd probably wait until the surface. If they freak out - well, there are some ways of getting free and they are on their own without air - but, at least by the book, they'll be OK once they have air and are doing a controlled ascent with their buddy.

That is exactly my thoughts as to why I will back mount and not sling. Also let me add one more thing to this. All my dives are open water. Even when wreck diving, I do not penetrate.

Should that ever change (more like NEVER - I just do not see the benefit of enclosed enviroment diving - the added danger or added risk does not excite me one bit), I will definitely sling. In such dive profile - sling does make more sense.



In bold above is why I want the option of handling off. The first time (and will be the last) I was in an OOA situation. My buddy (second time I ever buddy dive) nearly suck dry my tank. We were at 105 with over 1500 lb and by the time we surface (3 min safety at 15). I had 100lb left. On the surface, turns out my bubby's tank had 1000lb.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That's not your fault. It is his for not managing his air supply. Bad buddy there. I hope you are not still diving with him.

 

[IceBergSlim]

That is exactly my thoughts as to why I will back mount and not sling. Also let me add one more thing to this. All my dives are open water. Even when wreck diving, I do not penetrate.

Should that ever change (more like NEVER - I just do not see the benefit of enclosed enviroment diving - the added danger or added risk does not excite me one bit), I will definitely sling. In such dive profile - sling does make more sense.



In bold above is why I want the option of handling off. The first time (and will be the last) I was in an OOA situation. My buddy (second time I ever buddy dive) nearly suck dry my tank. We were at 105 with over 1500 lb and by the time we surface (3 min safety at 15). I had 100lb left. On the surface, turns out my bubby's tank had 1000lb.

The last time you had an OOA situation your buddy consumed 1400 psi from your tank on an ascent from 105fsw and yet lived.

After learning from this experience you have created an emergency gas plan that requires you to "hand off" a 19cft back mounted pony to your buddy and then "they are on their own".

I have to ask why bother with 19cft? Why not go with something smaller. You would be able to watch them drown much sooner that way.

 

[charlesml3]

You don't want the best way to carry a pony. So it really does not matter which of the many other options you choose. You will eventually discover the error and correct it.

I am just awestruck at the nastiness of some of these responses. This one from a supposedly experienced diver! This post was condescending and snotty. Do you really expect people to accept advice given this way?

And then it continues!

Am I missing something, or is there some reason this guy does not want to sling a pony like any other smart person would.

This little love note is from a Divemaster. Now that's the kind of DM I want on a dive! One who's going to talk to me like I'm stupid just because my pony isn't mounted the way he likes it.

I second the idea you ask on a technical forum the value of AI computers and back mounted pony bottles. Just don't expect the responses to be polite

It's completely reasonable to expect the responses to be polite. So put yourself in the other position. You ask a question and get what may very well be excellent information, but the response is loaded with condescending remarks and is clearly meant to make you feel stupid. Think you're going to accept the advice?

Finally there's this one:

I have to ask why bother with 19cft? Why not go with something smaller. You would be able to watch them drown much sooner that way.

Wow. From a dive INSTRUCTOR no less.

A few people tried to reel this back in and offer clear advice but for the most part, this thread represents the very worst of Scubaboard.

-Charles

 

[redacted]

I am just awestruck at the nastiness of some of these responses. This one from a supposedly experienced diver! This post was condescending and snotty. Do you really expect people to accept advice given this way?

And then it continues!



This little love note is from a Divemaster. Now that's the kind of DM I want on a dive! One who's going to talk to me like I'm stupid just because my pony isn't mounted the way he likes it.



It's completely reasonable to expect the responses to be polite. So put yourself in the other position. You ask a question and get what may very well be excellent information, but the response is loaded with condescending remarks and is clearly meant to make you feel stupid. Think you're going to accept the advice?

Finally there's this one:



Wow. From a dive INSTRUCTOR no less.

A few people tried to reel this back in and offer clear advice but for the most part, this thread represents the very worst of Scubaboard.

-Charles

Oh, did you think the OP was going to be open to any suggestions other than what system met his long list of requirements?