Pony as regular equipment for all dives?

[luscioman]

If you cant get other size tanks where you live you need to buy your own or dive double sidemount.

 

[The dutch guy]

Why apply the rule of thirds when not overhead diving? Make a good gasplanning using rock-bottom and don't use a pony is my opinion.

 

[EricTheDood]

If you have a pony, might as well bring on every dive. That's my opinion and that's what I do.

If you want to extend bottom time, use it as a stage bottle and plan accordingly. Some folks recommend using the stage bottle during the initial descent before switching to backgas, at which point the stage bottle becomes an emergency-only reserve. How you do it exactly is your business and based on your best judgement, training, etc.

Why use a slung pony over a doubles setup? Portability. You can bring an AL19, and maybe an AL30, to just about anywhere in the world. Fill with an equalizer whip.

 

[BradMM]

Don't know why I stopped getting notifications for updates to this post...? Anyway, yes, I've been OW certified since 1991 and am DM cert'ed currently. Just have evolved toward solo. Also, I like the philosophy of standardizing your gear regardless of solo or buddy.

Thanks

 

[chrisch]

If you dive solo you need a redundant gas source. A bailout (pony if you like) is a good choice. If you dive with a buddy then your buddy is the redundant gas source. If I were the buddy and you were equipped as a solo diver I would wonder if you care about me. To be honest - I wouldn't dive with you. I would go back to the car, get my bailout and dive on my own.

Gear standardisation is a crock. Are you going to dive with cave gear in open water because you "like standardisation"? Correct equipment for the dive you are about to make.

As a DM you must surely understand that your buddy needs clear and easy to understand gear configuration and procedure to the AAS in an OOG situation? You are a role model. Are you trying to teach the world to solo dive?

A separate bailout tank is essential for solo diving. Buddy diving and solo diving are not the same thing, especially for someone that is setting a professional standard.

 

[Pkishino]

If you dive solo you need a redundant gas source. A bailout (pony if you like) is a good choice. If you dive with a buddy then your buddy is the redundant gas source. If I were the buddy and you were equipped as a solo diver I would wonder if you care about me. To be honest - I wouldn't dive with you. I would go back to the car, get my bailout and dive on my own.

Gear standardisation is a crock. Are you going to dive with cave gear in open water because you "like standardisation"? Correct equipment for the dive you are about to make.

As a DM you must surely understand that your buddy needs clear and easy to understand gear configuration and procedure to the AAS in an OOG situation? You are a role model. Are you trying to teach the world to solo dive?

A separate bailout tank is essential for solo diving. Buddy diving and solo diving are not the same thing, especially for someone that is setting a professional standard.

Considering I also do some work as a DM in the Baltic sea where we have very variable divers in regards to experience and such. Therefore it is not uncommon to have solo, rbers and rec buddies on the same dive. As DM I usually do all the briefing and help people get ready on the rib. When it comes to under water I'm usually the first one down the line, both to check if we got the drop correctly near the wreck and to assess visibility and check bottom strobe is on. As standard I'm not buddies with anyone as I try to keep an oversight and plan. This could be having to setup a short jump line if visibility is low from upline to wreck, then I will wait at jump line for people to find out again etc..
For that and more I always gear up for solo diving, doubles, stage perhaps etc..
My core gear always stays the same, no matter where in the world I go : ss bp/w, long hose, bungee second, 1 backup lamp etc.. That is standardised.. Of course here in Baltic we add drysuit, doubles, primary torch, often second backup etc, extra dsmb etc.. For cave or penetration reels etc..
We always teach and tell me divers that you yourself should be able to handle any problems, your buddy may or may not be able to help, you need to be prepared for that. You cannot rely on your buddy being your alternative, that is just asking for trouble..
As a role model I explain my setup to any buddy, especially as it's much cleaner and simpler than most rec setups. Same way I listen to my buddy explain his setup, that is standard procedure.

 

[chrisch]

...
My core gear always stays the same, no matter where in the world I go : ss bp/w, long hose, bungee second, 1 backup lamp etc.. That is standardised.. Of course here in Baltic we add drysuit, doubles, primary torch, often second backup etc, extra dsmb etc.. ..

This is my standard gear too. If you dive with doubles then you have the redundant gas required (assuming the ability to do a shut down). When diving totally solo (as opposed to your example tasks - dropping down a line etc.) I prefer the reassurance of a completely separate system if it is not problematic to do so. For me this is a deco tank (or stage if you prefer) clipped to the above kit.

The debate really is if you are a single tank and octopus rigged diver. This arrangement offers no redundancy and is not suited to solo diving. An additional source is needed. The term "pony" generally means a small (often too small) tank back mounted. That is why I like the term bailout better. Bailout is to bail you out in moments of need. A back mounted small tank can - under some circumstances - be adequate and indeed ideal for solo explorations. Ice diving is a really good example of this. The diver should IMHO remove the octopus as it is not needed - there is no buddy to donate to. If you have a gas issue swap to the bailout - ideally necklaced so you cannot lose it.

The problem comes when you combine a bailout with an octopus and an buddy that might not be familiar with such configurations. You can invert the bailout and run the AAS from it, removing the second 2nd stage (octopus) from the primary regulator. This gives the best of all worlds. The valve can be accessed to turn off the bailout in a free flow, the AAS is available for the buddy as usual and the diver can self-rescue with the bailout. I would recommend this configuration to anyone wanting to have a standardised approach to both buddy and solo diving (such as a DM).

Pony tanks seem to bring out the argument in a lot of divers. IMHO this is because they are solo diver configurations and the combination of that with an octopus AAS is wrong headed and confused. They are not "bad" equipment per se. How can it be bad if if works? If you are at the doubles level of diving you should be familiar with a side slung tank for deco and understand this might not have a suitable breathing gas for the depth. Again not an issue in recreational diving.

A solo diver is responsible for his/her own gear and his/her own safety. You choose whatever kit you think best fits your needs and the dive in question. I don't think the OP idea of one size fits all is the right one. I would suggest they try the inverted back mounted bailout with the 2nd stage deployed as an octo. I think this is as near as they will ever get to what they are trying to achieve.

 

[BradMM]

I'm just certified as DM, I don't function as one. I'm also not a Tech diver (even though this forum is under Tech). I prefer rec diving and normally see everything I want to at 60' or less.

As to "pony" vs "bailout" my instructor uses bailout, I was just trying to conform to what I thought the standard was here.... maybe wrong.

 

[Kharon]

The problem comes when you combine a bailout with an octopus and an buddy that might not be familiar with such configurations.

I have 2 ponies exactly the same size and with only a slight difference. One is rigged with the octo on the valve/1st stage in a rip-free bag. That's for when I'm diving alone. It's not something other divers likely have seen.

The other is rigged with a standard octo on a long hose that is connected with a simple non-magnetic pop off device on my right shoulder with the air on. That's for diving when others are in the water with me. I make sure everybody knows to grab the bright yellow reg and just breathe - same as they would do with a regular octo. I'll then unclip the pony and hand it off to them.

 

[chrisch]

I'm just certified as DM, I don't function as one. I'm also not a Tech diver (even though this forum is under Tech). I prefer rec diving and normally see everything I want to at 60' or less.

As to "pony" vs "bailout" my instructor uses bailout, I was just trying to conform to what I thought the standard was here.... maybe wrong.

I don't think there is any agreed definition of "pony" but most people I have met think of a small back mounted tank of about 2L (a bit smaller than an Alu 40CF). The Alu 40CF is a very nice little tank and can be clipped to a wing or suitable BC with some D rings on it. My wife uses a 40 for a deco tank and it is light and pretty much neutral in the water. Most tanks (including 2L pony) are steel here, you have to shop around for an Aluminium tank.

The nice thing about a small bailout clipped to your BC/wing is that you can remove it easily to get in a small inflatable, you can even unclip it underwater and "lend" it to a distressed diver. Again I'm not sure if you would want to carry one all the time. At least it is very clear what it is and what it is for.

The back mounted tanks usually have a 2nd stage on a necklace. Thus there is confusion for the buddy which AAS is the one to take if needed. Also a number of people have drowned as a result of breathing down the pony by mistake. The small tank is one sided and spoils your trim in the water. They are a nuisance for filling and there are all sorts of nonsense debates about nitrox by people that don't understand it is an emergency item. (Put air in it)

The decision therefore has to be yours in the end. A nuisance tank that you don't need 99% of the time and wear for some reason, or buy a bailout to take just when diving solo? The side mounted Alu 40CF has a valve and pressure gauge where you can see it. You can never be confused which 2nd is which - the whole of the assembly is in front of you. If you are having any difficulty making your mind up see if you can borrow a 40 from someone or rent one and see how you get on with it. There is enough gas in a 40CF to get you back from a 130' dive with a safety stop. It would be my personal choice.