POLL, Nitrox tank use and analyze

[Rainer]

Again, if you care about a GLOBAL standard for safety, the "rule" to promote isn't to sticker cylinders (GUE divers already do this: gas contents, date, initials, MOD where appropriate), but to have all divers analyze all cylinders. Despite what sticker you put on a cylinder, it by itself doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the reality of the gas inside. It's really that simple. Stickers can be mis-marked. Stickers can fall/peel/tear off. Stickers can be missed. Stickers can be misunderstood. What matters ultimately is knowing what gas you're breathing. That holds REGARDLESS of the current "industry standards".

 

[DevonDiver]

I'm typing on the understanding that our conversation here won't actually change the global dive industry.

Stick a yellow/green band on a cylinder if it's used with nitrox. If a cylinder has that band, you don't use it until you've analysed it and labelled it.

If a cylinder isn't used with nitrox, leave it bare. No need to analyse it.

K.I.S.S.

A cheap, simple and reasonably effective global standard that all divers understand.

...or we could do it the GUE way...

 

[Rainer]

That's a TERRIBLE rule. And when that air cylinder accidentally gets filled with O2 (or a rich nitrox)? Or do blenders never mess up in your neck of the woods?

And do we have a THIRD colored sticker for Trimix? A fourth for hypoxic mixtures? Where does this colored stickering nonsense end?

Here's a better rule:

Sticker ALL cylinders with the gas contents as verified by you the diver. That's pretty simple and cheap. And safer.

I'm typing on the understanding that our conversation here won't actually change the global dive industry.

Stick a yellow/green band on a cylinder if it's used with nitrox. If a cylinder has that band, you don't use it until you've analysed it and labelled it.

If a cylinder isn't used with nitrox, leave it bare. No need to analyse it.

K.I.S.S.

A cheap, simple and reasonably effective global standard that all divers understand.

...or we could do it the GUE way...

 

[DevonDiver]

That's a TERRIBLE rule. And when that air cylinder accidentally gets filled with O2 (or a rich nitrox)? Or do blenders never mess up in your neck of the woods?

How would it? Un-labelled cylinders aren't used with nitrox. Simple.

That's how it's currently done in most of the world... or didn't you realize that?

And do we have a THIRD colored sticker for Trimix? A fourth for hypoxic mixtures? Where does this colored stickering nonsense end?

One sticker/band for NITROX. Another for TRIMIX. Nothing for AIR.

That's how it's currently done in most of the world... or didn't you realize that?

Sticker ALL cylinders with the gas contents as verified by you the diver. That's pretty simple and cheap. And safer.

Very simple. So all divers, dive operations and rental outfits now need to buy O2 Analysers? Even if they don't dive, or supply nitrox?

You got shares in one of those analyser companies?

 

[Rainer]

You're placing ALL your stock in blenders NEVER messing up. I'd rather place that stock in my confirming the gases I'll breathe.

I've seen divers request air get rich nitrox (risking O2 tox). I've seen divers request nitrox get air (risking DCS). Blenders DO mess up (or didn't you realize that?).

I'll continue to analyze all my gas. You can continue to play blender Russian roulette. Clearly you're someone who'd rather pass the responsibility buck off to someone else. That's fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree about how individual divers can best ensure their own safety.

 

[ianr33]

You got shares in one of those analyser companies?

You got shares in a label company?

(Or maybe a tank company. Sometimes I dive air,sometimes nitrox and once in a while when feeling rich,trimix. If I used your method I would either need 3 sets of tanks or spend half my life peeling labels off. Duct tape and a Sharpie works fine )

 

[Adobo]

If, however, you're just trying to make a point that you don't feel that there is any risk of accidental tank usage, then fair enough. That's a viewpoint. My viewpoint differs. We work and dive in very different locations, with very different divers. I judge my views on the basis of what I see every day, as do you.

Again, it is my opinion, that when considering a globally applied protocol, you have to consider the lowest common denominator - that denominator being (IMHO) the cattle boat tourist operations evident throughout the tropics.

- clip -

That might be relevant to your specific diving circumstances....very relevant to what I imagine most US diving is like... divers on charters, using their own cylinders and their own kit.

The vast majority of qualified divers don't own their own cylinders. They get on a boat, get handed a crate of equipment and pointed in the direction of a line of cylinders on a boat. Rental cylinders. Rental kit. Busy boat. Busy dive staff. Accidents waiting to happen.

As I said...I'm basing my perspectives on the lowest common denominator globally... mass market holiday diving.

I am still struggling with this "designing for the lowest common denominator" concept.

Can you help me understand the "real" and "believable" circumstances wherein Johnny newby diver winds up diving a GUE diver's tanks and winds up in great risk of O2 toxicity issues? Please walk me through it with some detail (need not be a ton of detail).

 

[Mossman]

So require nitrox labels for those who bring their own tanks on tourist cattle boats. GUE divers will have to buck up and label their tanks on those boats or else find a dive boat that isn't a tourist cattle boat.

Speaking of liability concerns, I wonder if a GUE diver with an unlabeled tank could get sued by a tourist diver who unwittingly grabbed the unlabeled tank and used it on a deep dive and ox-toxed. Since the industry standard is to label tanks, the question is whether there's a legal duty of care for GUE divers on cattle boats to ensure their tanks aren't used by unwitting tourist divers and the answer is likely yes. I'd strongly advise any GUE divers bringing their unlabeled tanks on tourist cattle boats to get a waiver from each and every other diver on the boat.

 

[Rainer]

Good Lord, you do realize GUE divers label ALL of their cylinders, right? Contents, date, initials (and MOD for stages/deco bottles). Same as what my PADI and NAUI classes told us to do. We just don't put on dumb colored stickers.

The legal duty of care (for life) is not to steal other people's stuff and stick it in your mouth.

 

[ianr33]

What does this have to do with GUE ? I'm a PADI/SSI/TDI/NACD diver and don't use no stinking bumper stickers.