Police shoot Iraq vet

[gdenny]

If you're that concerned, I'd just lie prone with my arms and legs spread and eventually they will put you where they want you with no effort on your part.

That was kinda my point. All I'm saying is the last thing I would do is get up in front of a nervous cop pointing a gun at me in a tense situation and expose my frontside. Even if they tell me to get up, I'm not moving.

If you only shot someone to wound them, you clearly did not believe that there was an imminent threat to life, but rather implies that you thought there was a 'potential' for the situation to threaten life, which in court isn't going to stand up.

So you're saying if an officer's life is threatened and immobilizing a person will clearly end the threat, they should shoot to kill to avoid potential legal liability? Somehow, in a court of law, the fact that you kill someone instead of wound them verifies that the threat was real?

 

[H2Andy]

So you're saying if an officer's life is threatened and immobilizing a person will clearly end the threat, they should shoot to kill to avoid potential legal liability?

a better reason is that the kind of marksmanship required to shoot to "wound"
as opposed to "kill" would be staggering, particularly with a pistol, on a
high-stress situation, on a moving target.

anybody trying to "wound" would probably take too long to shoot and would
probably miss anyway, if not shooting at the chest/belly area.

simply put, you should only use a weapon if you believe your life is on the line,
and then, if you believe that, shoot to take the assailant out. if he lives, hey,
great... i don't want him to die... the purpose is to stop his assault.

and the best way to do that is to shoot at his center of mass a few times

 

[Green_Manelishi]

and the best way to do that is to shoot at his center of mass a few times

(The infamous) "One" should be very careful when shooting "a few times". It's not good for your case if you fire 6, 10, 12, etc. rounds at the problem; especially if you are actually hitting your intended target.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

a better reason is that the kind of marksmanship required to shoot to "wound"
as opposed to "kill" would be staggering, particularly with a pistol, on a
high-stress situation, on a moving target.

Yes, it's very easy to miss under stress ... even a large target.

 

[H2Andy]

It's not good for your case if you fire 6, 10, 12, etc. rounds at the problem; especially if you are actually hitting your intended target.

well, i'll live first and then worry about my case

if he drops, i stop

btw, a competent attorney would make sure that at least two experts
testify to the jury about what it takes to take someone down, self-defense,
etc.

if i ever take such a case to a jury, by the end of trial that jury will
be the six (or nine) best educated people in America about self-defense
situations.

 

[MoonWrasse]

(The infamous) "One" should be very careful when shooting "a few times". It's not good for your case if you fire 6, 10, 12, etc. rounds at the problem; especially if you are actually hitting your intended target.

How about 27 shots?


PETALUMA
Molest suspect shot 27 times by police
Saturday, October 8, 2005

A 72-year-old suspected child molester killed by Petaluma police officers after allegedly brandishing a gun Oct. 1 had 27 bullets in his body, an autopsy showed.

James Anthony Decosta was shot in the head, neck, chest, abdomen and groin, according to the autopsy, with most of the wounds entering the left side. He also was struck in an arm, leg and foot, said Lt. Dave Edmonds of the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department.

Decosta was wanted on a $100,000 arrest warrant out of Sacramento dating to 1998 charging him with molesting a child under 14.

Police spotted him leaving a health club shortly after 5 p.m. He led them on a short chase through an industrial area, then allegedly got out of his car holding a gun.

Five officers were placed on paid administrative leave after the shooting.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ST2.DTL&hw=groin+shot+suspected&sn=002&sc=948

 

[Green_Manelishi]

How about 27 shots?

LE is different from "John Q. Citizen".

Regarding that particular incident I would like to know how many shots were fired, vs how many hit the target. Statistically it's very few that actually hit the target and that's why there is a "hail of gunfire". Additionally, when there are several shooters it stands to reason there will be more wounds inflicted. When the crappola hits there is no discussion about who is going to shoot; everyone shoots.

It's nice to know that Andy will educate the jury.

 

[H2Andy]

It's nice to know that Andy will educate the jury.

it' nice to be spoken of in the third person?

eyebrow

 

[astn]

(The infamous) "One" should be very careful when shooting "a few times". It's not good for your case if you fire 6, 10, 12, etc. rounds at the problem; especially if you are actually hitting your intended target.

I was taught four shots: two center mass, two pelvic girdle. That was followed up with the comment 'if they are still standing, shoot them until they fall down'. As long as the person still presents a threat, I would have no problems continuing to shoot them.

And as a group of officers shooting at a threat, seeing 12 to 20 rounds fired isn't uncommon. It will raise questions post-shoot, but as long as everyone felt there was a valid threat and everyone stopped shooting when they threat passed, it's usually not pursued (or acquitted, like the officers in the Diallo shooting.) And in that case, four officers fired 41 times (with 19 rounds reported to have hit Diallo.)

 

[MoonWrasse]

LE is different from "John Q. Citizen".

Regarding that particular incident I would like to know how many shots were fired, vs how many hit the target. Statistically it's very few that actually hit the target and that's why there is a "hail of gunfire". Additionally, when there are several shooters it stands to reason there will be more wounds inflicted. When the crappola hits there is no discussion about who is going to shoot; everyone shoots.

It's nice to know that Andy will educate the jury.

27 bullets were recovered from the body.

I agree with you about # rounds actually hitting the target, for example several years back a guy walking into a bank here with a gernade. 100 or so officers responded, and in the continious hail of bullets more bullets fired by officers struck other officers than the gernader.

So when I hear about a large # of bullets striking a suspect, it makes me wonder how many were fired and how close the officers were.

Still, too many questions unanswered to conclude anything in either case yet.