Police shoot Iraq vet

[Cacia]

My father, career FBI agent, taught all of us kids that when we were pulled over to place our hands in clear view on the steering wheel. (sidenote)

 

[cyklon_300]

I watched the video twice.

I found it curuious that the officer felt it necessary to tell the wounded airman to 'shut the f up' after shooting him. I'm no expert, but having lead projectiles penetrate your body could tend to induce someone to utter a few involuntary moans or screams.

My guess is that someone is going to be a former LEO very soon.

ps: why is this thread under Military Divers, seems like a Non-Diving topic.

 

[chip104]

updated story:

http://www.local6.com/news/6652276/detail.html

Deputy shoots airman after 100-mph chase
Calif., federal investigators probing incident videotaped by local resident

CHINO, Calif. - A videotape released Tuesday shows a sheriff’s deputy shooting an unarmed Air Force policeman who recently returned from Iraq as he appeared to obey an order to get up off the ground.

KTLA-TV broadcast a 40-second clip it said came from a Chino resident who videotaped Sunday night’s shooting, which followed a 100 mph car chase.

Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21, was listed in good condition at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton. He was shot three times in the chest, ribs and leg, his father-in-law, Ernesto Paz, told KTLA-TV.

State and federal investigators are reviewing the case, officials said.

Carrion was a passenger in a Corvette that crashed following a brief chase, authorities said.

Amateur photographer Jose Luis Valdez told The Associated Press that he made the video after the car crashed into the wall in front of his home. KTLA aired the videotape early Tuesday, then distributed it later in the day.

The dark, grainy picture shows Carrion lying on the ground next to the car, talking to a silhouetted officer who is pointing a gun at him. Carrion supports himself on one arm and his face is brightly lit by the officer’s flashlight.

'Get up'
Carrion is heard telling the officer he is unarmed and is in the military.

At one point, a voice is heard saying several times: “Get up.”

Carrion says: “I’m gonna get up.” As he rises, at least four shots are fired and Carrion collapses, crying out in pain.

“Shots fired! Shots fired!” someone shouts.

In a telephone interview conducted in Spanish, Valdez said after the shooting, Carrion asks the deputy, “Why did you shoot me if you told me to stand up?” That alleged exchange cannot be heard on the video.

The deputy, whose name was not released, was placed on paid administrative leave, a routine procedure in officer-involved shootings.

Carrion was not charged with a crime, although the incident remained under investigation, according to sheriff’s spokeswoman Robin Haynal.

The driver of the Corvette, identified by authorities as Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, was arrested for investigation of felony evading.

Carrion and Escobedo had left a party at the home of Carrion’s parents to drive to a store, said the airman’s wife, Mariela.

A woman who answered the telephone at the Montclair home of Carrion’s parents said they were headed to the hospital and nobody at the residence wanted to talk.

An Air Force spokesman, Lt. Frank Hartnett, said Carrion is a security officer at Barksdale Air Force Base in Shreveport, La. Carrion joined the Air Force in January 2003 and recently returned from a six-month tour in Iraq, Hartnett said.

Chino is about 40 miles east of Los Angeles.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

updated story:

http://www.local6.com/news/6652276/detail.html

The dark, grainy picture shows Carrion lying on the ground next to the car, talking to a silhouetted officer who is pointing a gun at him. Carrion supports himself on one arm and his face is brightly lit by the officer’s flashlight.

'Get up'
Carrion is heard telling the officer he is unarmed and is in the military.

At one point, a voice is heard saying several times: “Get up.”

Carrion says: “I’m gonna get up.” As he rises, at least four shots are fired and Carrion collapses, crying out in pain.

"A voice"? is heard? Who's voice. It was probably raining confusion and perhaps the airman began standing under orders of a command not directed at him. Regretably, the officer in question viewed it as a threatening move.

In any case, I was not there.

 

[gdenny]

This is awful. Not a cop, haven't seen the video. Thank God he is going to live.

IMHO there are too many nervous (with good reason) cops out there that wouldn't know a threat from a guy wiping the dirt off his chest after laying on the ground. My advice to all of you is if you're ever in a similar situation, lay on the ground with your hands behind your head and don't move. If a cop asks you to get up, ask him to cuff you first and help you up for the safety of everyone involved. It's pretty tough to explain shooting someone in the back while they are laying on the ground or shooting someone who is in handcuffs. Once you stand up, who knows what will happen. Seems in this case that the officer mismanaged the situation.

As for Green's Q on when and how to shoot. If I were the guy with the knife, I'd want you to shoot me in the legs at whatever distance you think is fair. Fair to me is about 15 feet. Please don't wait til you feel it necessary to put one in my head or chest. But if I got within 10 feet of you and was moving towards you aggresively I would expect you to take me out.

"Can't we all just get along?" RK

 

[astn]

This is awful. Not a cop, haven't seen the video. Thank God he is going to live.

IMHO there are too many nervous (with good reason) cops out there that wouldn't know a threat from a guy wiping the dirt off his chest after laying on the ground. My advice to all of you is if you're ever in a similar situation, lay on the ground with your hands behind your head and don't move. If a cop asks you to get up, ask him to cuff you first and help you up for the safety of everyone involved. It's pretty tough to explain shooting someone in the back while they are laying on the ground or shooting someone who is in handcuffs. Once you stand up, who knows what will happen. Seems in this case that the officer mismanaged the situation.

Just as a reference, 'asking' a cop to do anything when you're a suspect doesn't do a whole lot for you. As a general rule, I would just do what he says as slowly and nonthreateningly as possible. If you're that concerned, I'd just lie prone with my arms and legs spread and eventually they will put you where they want you with no effort on your part.

As for Green's Q on when and how to shoot. If I were the guy with the knife, I'd want you to shoot me in the legs at whatever distance you think is fair. Fair to me is about 15 feet. Please don't wait til you feel it necessary to put one in my head or chest. But if I got within 10 feet of you and was moving towards you aggresively I would expect you to take me out.

Someone can feel free to correct me, but shooting to wound is not normally an option. First off because it is unreliable as a 'stopper' (many recorded incidents of people functioning normally after being shot multiple times) and secondly (less important during the incident but extremely important afterwards) due to liability. If you only shot someone to wound them, you clearly did not believe that there was an imminent threat to life, but rather implies that you thought there was a 'potential' for the situation to threaten life, which in court isn't going to stand up.

 

[mdb]

Several years ago, while living in San Francisco, I was awakened about midnight by our panicked downstairs neighbors who had come home to find a window broken and their front door open. We welcomed them in and called the SFPD. I made the stupid mistake of going downstairs with a pistol and "clearing" their apartment. On my way back up the stairs the SFPD arrived. "Get on the ground, drop the gun" I did exactly that as slowly and carefully as possible. I spread eageled on the wet pavement as my panicked wife yelled' "That's my husband, we are neighbors." Two cars had responded.
After patting me down and ordering me up @ gun point they questioned why I would be out with a weapon when they had received a call on a crime in progress. I was very fortunate to have cool headed officers respond. I think most officers fall along these lines. Also glad to know that this AF vet will live.

 

[MoonWrasse]

Several years ago, while living in San Francisco, I was awakened about midnight by our panicked downstairs neighbors who had come home to find a window broken and their front door open. We welcomed them in and called the SFPD. I made the stupid mistake of going downstairs with a pistol and "clearing" their apartment. On my way back up the stairs the SFPD arrived. "Get on the ground, drop the gun" I did exactly that as slowly and carefully as possible. I spread eageled on the wet payment as my panicked wife yelled' "That's my husband, we are neighbors." Two cars had responded.
After patting me down and ordering me up @ gun point they questioned why I would be out with a weapon when they had received a call on a crime in progress. I was very fortunate to have cool headed officers respond. I think most officers fall along these lines. Also glad to know that this AF vet will live.

No, that was not the smartest thing for you to do.
Let the police do their work, they are (hopefully) trained to do.
As a general rule, avoid playing the hero lest you want to be part of an unfortunate statistic.

 

[H2Andy]

No, that was not the smartest thing for you to do.
Let the police do their work, they are (hopefully) trained to do.
As a general rule, avoid playing the hero lest you want to be part of an unfortunate statistic.

he just said the same thing, Moon

he understands it was "a stupid mistake" (his words)

 

[Charlie99]

Not to give an opinion, haven't seen it. BUT San Bernadino is the roughest place I have ever seen in my life. I used to work that stretch of the I-10 for trauma transport and ...talk about a war zone. Very, very bad area.

Another thing to consider is the frame of mind of a cop that has just come off of a 100mph chase. He doesn't know why the car is trying to get away at 100mph.

My guess is that he's

1. Rather nervous about what sort of characters are in the car.
2. He's on a massive adrenaline rush.

Not the sort of situation that helps to make a good call when you think a suspect might be reaching for a weapon.

The few times I've been stopped by cops in dicey situations, I've always been extra careful with my actions, recognizing that they don't know what my intentions are.